Well, the "I don't want no stinkin' rentals" mantra certainly went out the window when Sandy Alderson apparently completed a deal sending the dominating AA pitcher Michael Fulmer and 2nd tier pitcher Luis Cessa to Detroit for slugger Yoenis Cespedes. A two-time winner of the Home Run Derby at the All Star Game, Cespedes is having an outstanding year, batting .293 with 18 HRs and 61 RBIs.
He'll likely slot into RF with Curtis Granderson moving to CF and Michael Conforto remaining in LF.
He is a free agent at the end of the year and his contract stipulates a Qualifying Offer cannot be made, so there will be no compensation if he chooses to test the market.
Well, we all wanted a slugger and he is a bonafide one, though some will question whether or not the price paid was too steep for a two month rental.
Mack’s Mets – the premier site for information on the New York Mets talent pipeline and dialogue on Mets prospects, Mets news, and Mets opinions.
BOOM !!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeletePerhaps its the equivalent of when Mets obtained a kid named wheeler.... it is what it is.
They just acquired a cleanup hitter for two minor leaguers.......again.......BOOM
The price was too high for a rental. Panic move for Panic City.
ReplyDeleteCessa is a non factor his ceiling at this point in AAAA taxi squad guy.
ReplyDeleteFulmer certainly has upside but it's not as an bonafide ace.....he could eventually become a low end #2 or a solid #3....but neither of those ceiling will have been reached with the Mets who have 3 bonafide Aces in Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard. A superb future #2 in Matz, and a solid #3 with #2 upside in Wheeler.
Say what you want about Alderson but you have to commend him for improving the team this much without having to sacrifice ANYONE in "Generation K 2.0"
Cespedes is possibly the best left fielder in the game (defensively). In fact, he's never played a game in right in his major league career (though he has played some in center). I don't see him moving to right. They might try Cespedes in center, but I think its more likely Conforto goes back down. I know some here won't like it but, as Mack pointed out this morning, he's got 4 hits in 6 games and he got them all in the same game.
ReplyDeleteAnd your prediction that the Mets would not make a major acquisition, with the whole "well, we tried" press conference, is out the window. But I'm not sensing any contrition in your post.
The price is what it is due to many, many actions and non-actions that Alderson has been responsible for.
ReplyDeleteYes, there is cause to be happy and hopeful of an offensive improvement in regards to balance and production.
Do not let that cloud over the fact that this trade deadline has provided even more evidence that Alderson is not the right general manager for the Mets at this point in the organization's development.
Yes, he might have been a wonderful, amazing, incredible fit for three organization during his first contract while the organization was rebuilding it's farm system and major league performance was not consequential.
He is not the correct fit for the Mets organization now and moving forward.
Just in my opinion, with the prices other teams were paying for rentals, like the Tigers getting back Norris for Price, or Finnegan for Cueto, even Zobrist bringing back Manaea the price for a rental was clearly set. The whole situation with Cespedes strange contract definitely factors in, but I feel the Mets deal was right in line with market value. If by some wild chance they're able to extend him then I feel the trade is definitely a big win.
ReplyDeleteFulmer's future place in the Mets rotation or pen is irrelevant. The point is that we burned one of our more attractive trade pieces for a rental player. We're still going to need bats in the offseason and we now have less ammo to go after them.
ReplyDeleteI'll be rooting for Cespedes and the Mets but we'd paid a hefty price for last night's clown show.
I dont have a problem with this, they paid a lot, but got a lot.
ReplyDeleteFulmer was going to be used to get something. sorry to lose him.
I feel like they stayed on the path that they had set out. though paid a reaonably high cost to do so.
Not sure how anyone can criticize this move. Cespedes 3rd in all of MLB in XBH, hitting a shade under .300, has 18 HR's and plays a very solid OF. Cessa= 4A talent, not likely to make a dent here. Fullmer not the same as Wheeler, he's had a nice rebound year in AA. The starting rotation is still in tact and we didn't give up any of our top position player prospects or any members of the current team. Fullmer projects as BP arm. This is why you stockpile talent.
ReplyDeleteCespedes adds a lot and you have to give to get. I'd just feel better if we had him longer term.
DeleteI think it comes down to were Fulmer is as a prospect. If he is as Christopher states then I am o.k. with the trade. I think he is better than that but I'm not a professional scout. I have been watching his games of late and I was very impressed, as were the Tigers, with his improved command. He has two plus plus pitches. His fastball that sits at 95-96 and the nastiest slider in the Mets organization.
ReplyDeleteIf the Mets don't make the payoffs and Fulmer improves his change up, which in my opinion will make him an ace. This will go down as a terriable trade for the Mets. If Fulmer doesn't develop a plus third pitch and the Mets make the playoff this will be a very good trade. It has the potential to go either way. With the Mets having Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard, Matz, and Wheeler I guess it is worth the risk.
The Mets could have had both Gomez and Cespedes with losing only Flores from their 2015 roster.
Ol' bob is a riot........campaigning for weeks, begging for Sandy to do something.....anything! Well, he fills out the bench with solid vets, adds a nice arm to the pen and gets a slugging OFer (a righty which is key), but you still find fault and want him gone.
ReplyDeleteSandy did all of that and didn't dip into our rotation at all!
The guy could cure cancer and bobby would complain because it took too long!
I call them like I see them and you, bob, are the one who should leave.
First of all Mr. Anonymousy,
DeletePlease once again return to the facts.
I never, ever have or would suggest that Alderson or any gm should "something..or anything"
That would be less than intellligent.
I have Called Alderson out on poor choices he has made and warned about poor choices he could make if following his track record of behavior. (Many, if not most have turned out to be true)
I have also pointed out effects that are a result of his actions or non-actions that are not as evident. (Such as my comment below, please feel free to read)
One again you misrepresent, provide half truths, and out right lie in order to fit a fantasy that you would like to exist.
You are a very funny person
Mr. Anonymousy
Enjoy your fantay-life
You don't speak for me, Bob. I think Sandy did just fine. He improved the defense tremendously (Johnson, Uribe and Cespedes are all defensive studs), he improved the offense getting a much needed bat (with Travis back and Duda getting some protection in the lineup, the offense should improve beyond just Cespedes alone), and he got a solid guy for the bullpen to replace the vert stupid Mejia (might be he didn't want to have to go get a bullpen guy but he wasted no time in addressing the sudden hole).
ReplyDeletePitching comes first. We've got (counting Wheeler) 5 #1s according to ESPN (at worst, 3 #1s and 2 #2s). Defense comes second. My biggest disappointment this year had been defense, not offense, and Sandy aggressively addressed that deficiency. Sorry, Wilmer, a championship team can't afford your glove. Offense is the least important aspect of the game, but Sandy got us a legitimate slugger.
Again, according to ESPN, the acquisition of Cespedes makes the Mets the team you least want to face in October. Yeah, terrible job, Sandy. Right.
Try looking at it from this perspective:
ReplyDeleteInstead of acquiring Cespedes last year, at either opportunity, Alderson
1) locked in Cuddyer for this and next year
2) burnt bridges with the Brewers gm and other front office personnel that are friends with Melvin
3) succeeded in subjecting Flores to probably the most embarrassing moment of his young life.
4) once again making an enemy of the most influential player agent in baseball
5) making an enemy of a well respected player, such as Gomez, that will be sure to share his love of this experience to his player friends that will become free agents.
So, please keep in mind all of these additional costs when suggesting that Alderson ended up doing well here.
Way better than being stuck with multiple years of Jay Bruce. Add the fact that if Sandy didn't do something big, he was going to be less popular than that dentist who killed the lion.
ReplyDeleteGreat point!
DeleteThe Mets are about to field the best team they've had in YEARS..... its worth a shot! !!!!
ReplyDeleteIs anyone going to tell Terry about this?
ReplyDeleteThis was an awesome trade for the Tigers. The only way this works for us is if with Cespedes we actually start scoring rubs and make it to the playoffs. If we win the world series. I know a big if. Maybe that gives Cespedes a wanting to resign with us. A 3-4 year deal would be nice. We can then qualify for a compensation pick.
ReplyDeleteCespedes, like Clippard, is a very high quality player. In both cases, some good talent was sacrificed to get them. Fulmer was having a Matz-like breakthrough year in AA but, as said, has had trouble staying healthy and you'd like to see him do it longer than a single season before proclaiming him able to crack this rotation. Kudos to Sandy Alderson for making gutsy moves which hopefully will work for the club. As others have noted, come this off-season you're going to need to replace these four rental players and you've used up chips to get them. Still, the roll of the dice was necessary and I applaud Sandy Alderson for trying to win now -- something we haven't seen much during his tenure.
ReplyDelete@Stubby, the point of this post was not to editorialize but to inform about the specifics of the trade. In the previous paragraph I gave Sandy Alderson his applause for gambling these short term fixes were the right moves. I am concerned that it could hamstring flexibility going forward, but I would rather take that chance now to attempt to secure a post-season slot than apply Cuddyer-like band-aids and hope that pitching alone could carry the team. He surprised many people by making this move after the previous attempts for Parra, Gomez and Bruce fell through for one reason or another. Some will interpret it as capitulating to media and fan pressure. Others will say you have to give to get. Some call it panic. Others call it brave. As is the case with many things, the truth probably resides somewhere between the two extremes.
Interesting...
ReplyDeleteMy spin -
The Mets traded Cessa and Fulmer for two months of Cespedes and four years of Zack Wheeler.
They also can send Conforto to Las Vegas and give him the month of August to play every day before returning in September to help out.
For these reasons, I love the trade.
Cespedes has a cannon of an arm. It would play better in RF with Granderson's rag arm taken away from the field position that requires the longest throws. Still, if they want to stick Cespedes in CF, I'm fine with that, too. What I hope is that Conforto will get to stick around and see if he gets some more pitches to hit with some protection in the lineup in the form of Cespedes and d'Arnaud.
ReplyDeleteBottom line: we have a better chance of making the play-offs this afternoon than we did this morning.
ReplyDeleteBTW, who gets sent down, Conforto or Campbell?
Try looking at it from this perspective, Bob. The Mets are a better team, today, than they were two weeks ago. They are now poised to make a legitimate run at the playoffs. That's the job of the GM. Sandy did his job. Most of your bullet points relate to the Gomez non-deal. I'll go back to my buying a house analogy. If you've ever bought a house, you know that, after YOUR guy does his inspection (and please don't tell me you'd buy a house without doing your own inspection), there's a ton of stuff wrong with it that you weren't told about. What do you do? Do you just walk away? If you do, then you'll never buy a house. Do you just buy it anyway? Yeah, they saw you coming. No, you use that information to negotiate a lower price. That's smart, that's tough, that's what you do. If they won't budge on the price, THEN you walk away. I walked away from one who wouldn't budge and then walked right into one who, while they didn't lower the price, agreed to put on a new roof (from a contractor I specified) and install a new high end heating and cooling system. Those are two of the biggest expenses a home owner would have to face. I'm glad they didn't lower the price instead because I made out like a bandit. But I would have walked away if they didn't address issues my guy found that they hadn't been up front about.
ReplyDeleteMelvin's upset Sandy wanted to renegotiate after hearing from our doctors the extent of the medical concerns? I'm more offended that Melvin wasn't up front about the injury.
As for Cuddyer, going into last off-season, the internets were awash with web sites and blogs saying the Mets needed to target Cuddyer. I've found the Common Wisdom is usually wrong, but that was the Common Wisdom at the time. Only AFTER they signed him did that suddenly become a bad move (in the eyes of the crowd who feel Sandy can do no right). IF he's the guy you're going after, you WANT him for two years since that's the timetable for the team being strong and the offense in the system graduating. We'll see what happens with Cespedes. His purpose, right now, is getting us to the post-season THIS year. Period.
It's hard not to feel sorry for Wilmer but he's a grown man being paid as much this year as I probably made in twenty years. Get over it. There's no crying in baseball.
And Boras is every GMs enemy. He knows it and he loves it.
Stubs
DeleteMy apologies but those are all rationalizations.
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYou have NO right to tell anybody to leave this site. Mack and Chris welcome all here who want to discuss the Mets, or anything that pertains to them. Even you. Personally, your post sounds like a bored middle schooler that's waiting for September so he can go back to 8th grade and shoot spitballs at the teachers and get detention for smokin' in the boys room. Please, keep your comments to baseball and not trying to chase valued members of this community. I disagree with Bob sometimes, but I would never get personal with him.
Well said, Stubby!
ReplyDeleteWe have the rest of the season and 5 days after to lock up Cespedes. It's going to cost us, but we can do it.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteI like the trade, I am excited as a fan.
All of this comes back to the nature of deadline trades. In the past, some folks have excessively praised the Mets GM for making what I believe are easy trades to make: A team with no interest in competing dumping a veteran to a club in a pennant race. It is easy to pick up prospects. The deeper trick is for those prospects to work out, and in that regard, thinks looks good so far. This time, the shoe has been on the other foot. My fear was that Sandy might be afraid to act at all, fearful to "lose" any trade. That hasn't been the case. He rolled the dice.
In the logic of the Mets world, the get swept this weekend. But in another narrative, this team wins 40 more games before the season is done. Let's hope that Bartolo can hold it together until Matz gets back. Tonight would be a great time for Matt Harvey to make a statement.
I like Mack's idea of saying to Conforto, hey, dude, see you on September 1st.
James Preller
Read your post again, Reese. That's not straight information. It has a deliberate negativity. You started negative and ended negative. You're like the boy who insults his birthday party guests and, when told by his mother "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all", comes up with, "She doesn't sweat much for a fat girl." If you started at "Sandy" and ended at "market", then it would be a straight informative post. The stuff before and after moves it into editorializing.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I said this previously, but I think Fulmer's FB/Slider combo makes him at least a very tough late-inning reliever, possible closer.
ReplyDeleteJames Preller
Heres a few good things:
ReplyDeletethe entire starting 5/6 next year will cost less then 20 mm even if Harvery has the highest arb 1 salary ever.
the current outfielders under contract costs 30 mm
the infield, duda (9-11), wright(20), 2b and ss at the moment will be less then 35 mm
thats no more then 85 mm. just saying. flexibility.
Steve From Norfolk -
ReplyDeleteFeel free to ignore people on this site with different opinions than yours, especially ones with no names :)
Look.
ReplyDeleteGentlemen.
Yes. Congratulations to the Mets. Cespedes is a wonderful fit and should definitely make the team better.
The trade itself, valuing this season, is worth it. Especially if the Mets are able to keep D'Arnaud in the lineup for the rest of the season and if Wright could actually participate in the last few weeks of the season and hopefully post season.
Wonderful. Wonderful things.
Congratulations to Alderson and the Mets.
There. That has been said. By me. With meaning and seriousness behind it.
My apologies for not giving more time and triumphant, celebratory, adulation for the immediate improvement that has been made.
There is however a bigger picture full of interconnected causes and effects.
This positive effect is also the result of some negative cause and effect domino's of actions and non-actions that Alderson is responsible for.
Where these chains of cause and effect lead can have some serious repercussions, given Alderson's track record of decisions.
Alderson says the team doesn't feel complete and that he can still make deals in August. I wonder if there's anything up his sleeve, maybe some discussions he's had that will be revisited.
ReplyDelete@Stubby -- reading is fundamental. I did not say I felt that rentals were the wrong way to go. The reports in the media quoted Sandy Alderson as saying it.
ReplyDeleteRegarding whether or not he paid too much, I didn't say he did. How is that negative?
Geez, Wheeler actually called Sandy directly and asked him to not trade him because he WANTS to be a Met? Keep him.
ReplyDeleteI now officially love wheeler and wilmer....................
ReplyDeleteErnest
ReplyDeleteI agree. You often see players who don't want to come to the Mets. It's a nice change of pace to see players who love being Mets.
Richard Jones
Its tone and emphasis, Reese. I majored in English and minored in journalism, so I'm not a neophyte at these things. Even the use of the word "Well" to start the piece infers a certain amount of negativity (and again in the final sentence). That last sentence only exists to convey doubt; you've already established that its a rental and that the Mets can not make a qualifying offer, so the "some will question" is one of those Fox News tricks of conveying the author's personal opinion in the guise of public sentiment. Again, if you're writing to be strictly informative, that sentence serves no purpose. It would be different if you were quoting someone widely accepted as an authority. I.E. "though Jayson Stark has stated that the price may be too steep for a two month rental". But the "some will question" is total crap, even if true (yes, even if true). That's your way of saying that's what you believe without saying "this is what I believe". Fox News trick.
ReplyDeleteIf you're writing to persuade or express your personal beliefs, while wanting to be able to SAY its an objective and informative piece, you do what you did--take an objective and informative piece and then add an opening and closing that convey your view.
In a straight information post, if you wish to include Alderson's statement on rentals (which I don't recall, FWIW; I remember him saying he was open to either a rental or a long term addition, depending upon what developed), then you use his precise quote and present it dispassionately. I.E. "Though Sandy Alderson had earlier expressed that he'd 'rather not pay a high price tag for a two month rental', the Mets came away from the trade deadline with Yoenis Cespedes--a free agent at the end of this year--sending highly regarded prospect Mike Fulmer and second tier prospect Luis Cessa, both right-handed pitchers, to Detroit." Yes, I know you are not writing for the New York Times. And that still conveys opinion, given the aspect of the deal you're highlighting up front (it would be still less of an opinion piece if that information appeared towards the end of the piece instead of up top). But the way you wrote it, Reese, frankly sounds snotty.
Either your negativity about the Mets is deliberate and you think you're being cleverly subtle or you are actually unaware of how your negativity is coming through, but I see it in everything you write about the Mets. If its not deliberate, then that's something you might want to think about.
I'm getting off this ride, now. I'm pleased with Sandy's performance at the deadline. Perhaps you are not. You think your post was strictly informative. I disagree. As my ex-girlfriend would say to me in situations like this, "Do what you want. That's what you're going to do anyway."
I notice that you often do your own bit of misdirection as you make an extension as if it is true.
DeleteYou subtly, whenever something is written that is negative toward something that Alderson may or may not do, extend it as being Met-negative. Stressing that the writer is so negative tward the Mets.
That is not a direct relationship.
Being negative toward Alderson's actions or failure to act, does not make someone Met-negative.
It could be done with nothing but the best if thoughts and interest in the Met organization.
Mack can we delete these posts with people attacking each other? Its really annoying and the community at your site has pretty much avoided it. Just ignore the trolls people...
ReplyDeleteFulmer was looking pretty darn good. I think its nice to think he will only be a RP or backend pitcher but based on his recent games he looks pretty solid. If the Mets actually shell out the dough to resign Cespedes then I really like this.
Stubby -
ReplyDeleteI'm getting complaints about you... AGAIN.
Please stop fighting with people here. I don't want to have to go throught the energy again of deleting your posts.
We pride ourselves here as having respect for each other.
I would appreciate it if you would cooperate.
Thank you.
Mack
Listen up everybody.
ReplyDeleteFor whatever reason, the tone in the comment section of this site is changing.
We have always been known as an adult site that doesn't attract the trolls and #Twitter crowd that fills so many other Mets blogs. I've always said that I didn't want to delete comments, but I've had to do this in the past because Blogger doesn't allow me to block posters.
I'm getting a fair amount of complaints lately, especially today. A couple of you are really turning the rest of the readers off and there simply is too much negative energy lately.
Could we just stop it?
Could we just ignore other people if they try to fight with you?
Could we just return this site to the great discussion site it has been in the past?
Thank you in advance.
Mack
Cespedes-Festivus tomorrow at Citifield?
ReplyDeleteMaybe the Mets could decorate the Apple?
The other Cespedes in the GCL had 3 hits today to celebrate.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if anyone mentioned it regarding Gomez, but a few years ago, stole 37 times, caught 6. This year, 7 and 6.
LGMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAmazing. I'm so happy to be a fan of this team right now. You're all great commenters. Stay positive, folks! :)
Mack,
ReplyDeleteI apologize if I crossed a line with my post. I jumped on the Anonymous poster for trying to chase Bob and then I did the same thing. Won't happen again.