Craig Calcaterra | NBS Sports- Terry Collins’ decision to leave Matt Harvey in the game for the ninth inning last night will be long-discussed in New York. Maybe there were good arguments against it and maybe those good arguments were right. But there was a lot of emotion and drama and gut instinct to it all as well. Collins, somewhat surprisingly, admitted that it was all about his heart: "I told him that we were going — that was enough. And he just came over and said, “I want this game. I want it bad. You’ve got to leave me in.” I said, “Matt, you’ve got us exactly where we wanted to get you.” He said, “I want this game in the worst way.” So obviously I let my heart get in the way of my gut. I love my players. And I trust them. And so I said, “Go get ’em out.”
(Chris Soto: I don't blame Terry Collins....not one bit....there isn't a manager in baseball who would've taken the fiery Harvey out of this game with as well as he had been pitching last night. Especially when you factor in how well the Royals had been performing against the Mets bullpen during the series. I always say that if the ship is gonna go down, you better make sure it goes down with your best guns firing. Harvey was the best gun last night and had every right to still be out there. 2015 was a GREAT, lemme say it again....a GREAT season. Mets fans should be unbelievably proud of this team.)
(Chris Soto: I don't blame Terry Collins....not one bit....there isn't a manager in baseball who would've taken the fiery Harvey out of this game with as well as he had been pitching last night. Especially when you factor in how well the Royals had been performing against the Mets bullpen during the series. I always say that if the ship is gonna go down, you better make sure it goes down with your best guns firing. Harvey was the best gun last night and had every right to still be out there. 2015 was a GREAT, lemme say it again....a GREAT season. Mets fans should be unbelievably proud of this team.)
Dan Capwell | Mets Today- The Mets’ magic carpet ride crashed and burned last night at Citi Field. This one will hurt for a while but the reality of the situation is that the Mets, while vastly improved over last year, (or even mid-season), just aren’t completely ready and on the biggest stage in baseball their flaws were finally exposed. That’s why I loved Darling’s pre-game comments on SNY last night. He compared the 2015 team to the 1984 team, which like this one, won 90 games, which was the first winning season in over half a decade for a beleaguered franchise. Like their 2015 antecedents, the 1984 team rose to the top mainly due to the emergence of some young arms. Niether team was quite ready. The 1984 team improved and the rest was history. Will the 2015 team improve? Time will tell.
(Chris Soto: This is both extremely accurate and an extremely important point that needs to be made. This is not some 1 and down team here. The only end of year starting players that will be reaching free agency this off-season are Daniel Murphy and Yoenis Cespedes. One of which [Murphy] is viewed as easily replaceable since, despite his consistency, he's generally only worth about 2.0 WAR per season thanks to his horribly bad defense. While there is certainly no guarantee that they will be back in the World Series, this team is certainly capable of fighting for another chance.)
(Chris Soto: This is both extremely accurate and an extremely important point that needs to be made. This is not some 1 and down team here. The only end of year starting players that will be reaching free agency this off-season are Daniel Murphy and Yoenis Cespedes. One of which [Murphy] is viewed as easily replaceable since, despite his consistency, he's generally only worth about 2.0 WAR per season thanks to his horribly bad defense. While there is certainly no guarantee that they will be back in the World Series, this team is certainly capable of fighting for another chance.)
Michael Baron | Just Mets- The Mets may have lost the World Series a few hours ago, but all that means is the Mets and the front office will go back to work in an effort to ensure they are on the other side of the celebration they witnesses in their home ballpark a year from now. All non-free agents and free agents who do not sign file for free agency currently on the 60-day disabled list must be activated and placed on the 40-man active roster today. The Mets must also consider 40-man roster decisions as it pertains to minor leaguers eligible for the Rule 5 draft in December. The name that headlines that list is Brandon Nimmo, Matt Bowman, Wuilmer Becerra, and Robert Gsellman.
(Chris Soto: No rest for the weary. The team now needs to quickly change gears into off-season mode almost immediately. Buddy Carlyle, Zack Wheeler, Josh Edgin, Rafael Montero, Jack Leathersich, Wilfredo Tovar, Jerry Blevins, Darrell Ceciliani must all be activated today. The team will naturally clear some 40 man roster spots via players filing for Free Agency such as Cespedes, Murphy, Parnell, Uribe, Johnson, Blevins, and Clippard. That's 7 on versus 6 off so someone is going to have to be DFA'd off the 40 man roster....I expect that this will likely be either Carlyle or Eric Young Jr., who surprisingly, is still only eligible for Arbitration.)
(Chris Soto: No rest for the weary. The team now needs to quickly change gears into off-season mode almost immediately. Buddy Carlyle, Zack Wheeler, Josh Edgin, Rafael Montero, Jack Leathersich, Wilfredo Tovar, Jerry Blevins, Darrell Ceciliani must all be activated today. The team will naturally clear some 40 man roster spots via players filing for Free Agency such as Cespedes, Murphy, Parnell, Uribe, Johnson, Blevins, and Clippard. That's 7 on versus 6 off so someone is going to have to be DFA'd off the 40 man roster....I expect that this will likely be either Carlyle or Eric Young Jr., who surprisingly, is still only eligible for Arbitration.)
I feel the same way this morning as I felt before game 5 started. ...... I strange sense of calm.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite team just played in the world series.
My favorite team has pretty much every important player coming back next year.
Rather than make biased positive predictions I'll simply say that im hoping for 85+ win seasons for the rest of this decade.......which means that I can enjoy Mets statistically win more than lose while I watch as often as possible for years to come.
We (the boys and I who were watching the game) were stunned and bewildered that Cespedes was not pulled for Lagares when the pitch was fouled the ball off his knee and he could not walk. Why he was not asked by Collins to run a few steps before deciding if he is pulled or not was inexplicable. C'mon, Terry, no brainer. AWFUL DECISION. SIMPLY AWFUL.
ReplyDeleteI heard Duda speak on his 9th inning wild throw..."I caught Hosmer out of the corner of my eye and just made a bad throw. Hats off to Hosmer." No. If you were fully alert, Lucas, you'd have caught that ball ready to fire home. That one was inexplicable too. He can be traded.
I was for Harvey coming out in 9th, but Harvey for overly amped after Collins inexplicably telling Warthen that Matt was done. How about "great job, Matt, can you give us one more inning? Or should we bring in Jeurys?" "Hell, no, I am good. Give me the ball." Had Collins done it that way, we all felt that somehow, that positive vibe for Harvey would have produced a better 9th for him. And a win.
It would have been tough to win game 6 and 7....but deGrom and Thor could well have made it happen. Opportunity blown.
Ernest, with this superior, once in a lifetime, pitching, we should be shooting for an offense and defense that wins us 95 or more per year for the rest of the decade, not 85.
ReplyDeleteThe pitching is a huge gift not to be squandered, Mets need to back it up. 95-100 wins, every year.
Thomas,
ReplyDeleteI pretty much agree with everything you posted. Right now, this one stings and it stings a lot. I will add that I was in favor of Harvey coming out for the 9th, but first base runner and Familia is in...especially a leadoff walk. Collins navigated them to the WS and deserves to return, but he had a bad series like many of his players. The 1984 analogy is pretty accurate, but no guarantees of the same ending. I also agree on Cespedes, Collins was very fortunate he didn't hit a grounder...it could have been a triple play. The manager looked a bit overwhelmed, hopefully they will return again in 2016 and he will perform better.
Guys -
ReplyDeleteI'm still collecting my thoughts on this series and will probably write a full post on it later this afternoon. For this morning, it's off to the hospital again with my mother-in-law for a check-up.
Needless to say, I am disappointed but I want to congratulate everyone in the Mets organization for giving me the most exciting season I have had in years.
Tom and TP,
ReplyDeleteI agree 100% with your comments. Look, the Mets had a great year, performed much better than we could have dreamed, and I am happy overall. But I was shocked by those two moments in particular from Terry yesterday, all the more coming after the Clippard saga the day before:
Letting Cespedes decide whether to continue batting, even though he could have caused a triple play had he hit a grounder.
Letting Harvey make the decision at a critical moment like that (that is not his call), but more importantly then giving him enough leash to let on two men.
I'm actually with Collins on letting Harvey start the 9th but once again the leash was too long. The second he let the leadoff batter get on that's when he should have been yanked. Collins' inertia with pitchers throughout the series led to lots of unnecessary scoring. Credit KC for doing it in the clutch but points off for bad decision making.
ReplyDeleteI wholeheartedly agree with Tom about the Cespedes thing. There's no way he should have been allowed to stay in the game. ANY healthy player, even with an 0-2 count would have been preferable to one who could not put any weight on his leg. The announcers even said had he hit the ball on the ground it was an automatic double play. It was just plain Collins stupidity that we've seen way too often.
Still, despite the many things he did wrong you really have to fault the players for not executing with the bats and credit the Royals for doing everything right.
It will be interesting to see who is retained and who is shown the door.
Mets had the lead in the 8th inning 4 out of 5 games. They had the lead in the 9th inning 3 out of 5 games. Let that sink in again.
ReplyDeleteMets beat themselves
Duda -> Errors, barely hit all playoffs, the hits he got were bleeders, no power
D'Arnaud -> Passed ball cost us some runs, the Royals ran on him with complete abandon and his bat abandoned him
Murph -> Did not show up to the World Series
Cespedes -> Has been absent for the last month. WS was capped with bad defense, baserunning, striking out and grounding into double plays.
Wright -> Had several fielding miscues, was largely ineffective at the plate
Flores -> Automatic out
Granderson and the Starting Pitching kept us in the games we were in. The defense and inability to hit at all lost us the series.
I'm disappointed but excited to see how Sandy will fix the team to take it all the way next year. We had our chances. If Cespedes or another hitter was hot it probably would have made all the difference and the pressure would not have been so great in the late innings.
Thomas -- I agree with you're analysis, but not with the bitterness (I apologize if I misread that).
ReplyDeleteI once got to talk with Ralph Branca, an AB Davis HS (Mt Vernon) friend of my cousin, and he said: There's disappointment, heartbreak & bitterness, avoid the latter it will kill you. I was a teenager at the time.
Kirk Gibson might have grounded out 9-3. Cespedes might have blooped down the LF line and crawled to 1st inciting a legend. We all replay games in our head --ante-play too -- it makes baseball the great game it is.
Thanks to the writers and readers here at Mack's Mets for giving me a place to read about and comment upon the Mets.
ReplyDeleteChristopher, I agree with you on Harvey, and best guns blazing. He earned that moment. Of course, it was the wrong decision -- and I don't love how it was made, the distraction of the debate -- but I would have made the same call. In some respects, I think the mistake was in telling Matt that he was done in the first place, which I think was Tom's point.
Guys didn't hit, didn't field, and can't run.
I think this will be a very tough winter for the Mets GM. The postseason is by no means a lock unless he makes bold moves to replace #3 and #4 hitters, as well as overall upgrades of bullpen and infield defense. The situation with David Wright makes this a very, very difficult winter to navigate, as I believe that the Mets captain is toast.
Championship Teams can play and win in many different scenarios. The Mets can win Games with Big Starting Pitching PLUS Home Runs.... if the game goes differently, their chances are diminished.
ReplyDeleteThey have an amazing Starting Pitcher Core.... they remain a below average team for Baserunning, Speed and Offensive Situations---they don't bunt, or Hit and Run, and their hitters are extremely Shift Prone. I also believe they are less than optimum defensively
I will wait to make suggestions to address next year---THIS Year has been wonderful!!!
James -
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing how many holes this team seems to have... porous infield defense, bad playmaking, an aging and limited third baseman, a catcher without a throwing arm, only one dominant relief pitcher, and the loss of their top hitter.
It should be an interesting off-season.
Mack
ReplyDeleteI think you bring up a good point about the Mets and the number of holes it had.
They won in spite of those wholes because individuals had stand out performances at different times. Murphy's first two playoff series performances is the most drastic example of this.
Unfortunately individual stand out performances, such as Harvey & Matz enjoyed, were not enough to counter the Team-Performance of the Royals.
Something to learn & grow from.
Thanks you Mets
Adam Rubin is already reporting that the Mets will not be pursuing Cespedes in the off-season (ploy?)
ReplyDeleteNo tears from me
DeleteGreat commentary, one and all. I was kinda bitter, Hobie, thanks. But by tomorrow, it will all be gone. Oh, wait, I forgot, I have to write my Tuesday AM POST. Thought I'd be writing about the night's game 7.
ReplyDeleteAfter, I posted this AM, the radio said the Royals book was to run on Duda at every opportunity. And so they did. I am sure the Book was the same for d'Arnaud. The Royals catcher looked awfully good by comparison.
I have to disagree with this:
ReplyDelete"there isn't a manager in baseball who would've taken the fiery Harvey out of this game with as well as he had been pitching last night."
There may not be a fan in New York who would have taken him out, but there are 29 other managers in MLB who would have. And there are 29 other GMs who would fire any manager who didn't.
Not saying that as a knock on Collins or anyone here. Not saying it in or out of anger. But its the truth.
Look considering all the errors, base running gaffs and bad AB's in the series we still had a lead into the 8th in one game and twice into the 9th inning and we should be about to watch a ticker tape parade....oh well maybe next year. It certainly should be a very interesting off season as the old F.O. excuses for not spending won't cut it any more. Last night reminded me so much of 88' and how it felt after Scioscia's game tying HR just sucked the air right out of the stadium and if we played 20 inning's we we're going to win that game and we all know how that turned out. I also realize we went ALOT further than any of us thought just a few months ago so we have to feel good about that. The first big question going into the off season has to be how the extra innings will effect our young pitchers next year. If they come through this with flying colors that just might change the whole thought process involving innings limits....tune in a year from now.
ReplyDelete