The memory can play tricks on you, but I still remember a game in a very homer unfriendly park named Forbes Field between the Mets and Pirates. where the Pirates' Roberto Clemente and Donn Clendenon lined balls to right center that went for triples. OK, it happens.
What I recall, though, is that both Clemente and Clendenon's triples had more than 3 bases in common - both were lined off the 436 mark in right center! 436 feet - not a misprint!
Talk about hitter unfriendly! Imagine how you'd feel as a hitter hitting a ball on a line to the OPPOSITE FIELD 436 feet and just have a triple to show for it!
Wikipedia showed the following for dimensions for Forbes Field at the time:
The final posted dimensions of the ballpark were left field line 365 feet, left-center field 406 feet, deepest left-center 457 feet, deep right-center 436 feet, right-center field 375 feet, and right field line 300 feet.
"Deep Right Center" is an understatement.
I tried to figure out two things:
1) if there was an article I could Google for that game (answer: couldn't readily find it), and
2) was there a game where they both tripled? (yes, June 5, 1965).
On that day, Gary Kroll did not make it out of the first inning for the Mets, and Jim Bethke threw several relief innings - and allowed triples to Clemente and Clendenon.
Looking for more to confirm that was in fact the game, I looked at the box score - both triple were listed as to right field, so that was almost definitely the game.
So, how much did cavernous Forbes affect Clendenon's stats?
In Forbes Field, he had 36 triples and 36 homers in 1,710 at bats. Or about 12 triples and 12 HRs every 535 at bats.
Everywhere else, he had 2,938 at bats and just 21 triples, but 113 HRs, Over 535 at bats, that averages out to 4 triples and 21 HRs. Big difference.
Clemente?
In 4,486 ABs at Forbes Field, he incredibly had 9 more triples than homers, with 95 triples and 86 HRs, while everywhere else, in slightly more at bats (4,972), he had a much more normal ratio, 71 triples and 154 HRs. Had he played his entire career in Three Rivers Stadium, he may have hit 300 HRs, not 240.
Lastly, what about the great, great slugger, Willie Stargell? At Forbes just 75 HRs (and 33 triples) in 1,685 at bats. Everywhere else, he hit 401 HRs (and just 22 triples) in 6,242 at bats. Had he never played in Forbes Field, he may have hit 520 homers instead of his career 475 total.
Getting back to Donn Clendenon, he had an amazing 97 RBIs in just 396 at bats in 1970 for the Mets
Project that over 595 at bats, more of a normal season, and he would have had 146 RBIs.
He also was really helpful in the 1969 championship season, with 12 HRs and 37 RBIs in 202 at bats.
His Mets totals over 1969 and 1970?
598 at bats, 34 HRs and 134 RBIs. Truly impressive, and exceptionally so back in the low offense era of that time.
Those are the numbers of a guy who was overjoyed to be out of "cavernous" Forbes Field.
Lastly, as a point of emphasis, Donn Clendenon hit 28 HRs in 1966.
How many of those were in home games at Forbes Field?
THREE. JUST THREE.
He hit 8 times as many long balls, 25 HRs, on the road that year, with a road split of .311/.369/.625.
His motto must have been "Road, Sweet Road."
Speaking of caverns, a similarly unfriendly hitters' park badly impacted one of our favorite Mets players ever. Article tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteYou have really become the Mack's Mets historian here.
ReplyDeleteAs Herman's Hermits once sang, and Sam Cooke wrote, "Don't know much about history..."
ReplyDeleteI do not have a great memory for the old days, but certain things of interest in the days gone by just stick with me.
Greenberg Gardeb/Kiners Korner era: LF=335; LCF=376. Restored to earlier dimensions mid-50's. Best though was the batting cage stored in RCF during gemes. I wonder if Clemente's 3B was "off the cage?"
ReplyDeleteI kinda liked the big, quirky parks: the in in-play monuments at Yankee Stadium, the in fair territory BP's at the Polo Grounds, etc.
You can have your K, K, BB, HR, K, K, BB, HR game; I like triples & back-to-the-plate catches.
Hobie knows baseball.
ReplyDeleteHobie, I like smaller parks myself.
ReplyDeleteRemember Bill Robinson? Had a nice career, but I was (why, I have no idea) at a Yankee game in 1967, and Robinson couldn't buy a hit that year, and he drilled a shot about 450 feet near the monuments that was run down. His shoulders sagged. Man, I felt bad for him. That guy needed a break, and he didn't get it. I'm sure he wished CF was 408, not 461.
He hit .206 over 3 seasons as a Yank, and finally moved on to Philly and got his career in gear, there and in Three Rivers in Pittsburgh.
I also remember A Rod in the early Citifield days in a Yank-Mets game lining a bullet off the top of the great wall of Citi that was closest to CF. All he could do on 2B with his double was laugh and shrug. He probably was very thankful he did not play in the ridiculously pitcher-friendly Citi Cavern.