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1/14/22

Reese Kaplan -- Hernandez Was in the Mets Top Three at 1B

At a time when everyone is going Mets-bonkers over the induction of Keith Hernandez into their internal Hall of Fame, it got me to wondering about the first basemen the Mets have employed over the years and pondering whether or not Mex was indeed the best of the lot.

There is absolutely no question of Hernandez' defensive abilities at the position.  First base had often been the repository for guys who could swing the bat but needed to be hidden on the field in a slot where they would do the least damage with the glove.  Keith Hernandez changed all of that, charging aggressively on bunts, fielding with pizzazz and showing that the defensive side of the game was just as important as the offensive one.  

The Mets obtained Hernandez during a period where the Cardinals were trying to rid themselves of a player who was thought to be overindulging in recreational substances.  The Mets had a similar problem with the drinking habits of reliever Neil Allen.  The match was made and the bundle of Allen plus pitching prospect Ric Ownbey got the deal done.  

On the surface it seemed as if the Mets didn't give up very much to obtain the MVP, 2-time All Star and 5-time Gold Glover, but Hernandez was poised to hit free agency and he was thought to be a rental player who often doesn't net that much in return.  

Allen went 20-16 during three years with the Cardinals while providing a solid if unspectacular 3.84 ERA while fighting his control.  Ownbey had parts of two seasons there going just 1-6 with a 4.09 ERA.  Yeah, the Mets won that deal for sure.  

Hernandez was not initially interested in remaining with the Mets, but after arriving to great acclaim and fan affection, he started to think it was a possibility.  Then when he saw some of the players due to come up through the minors, it became a much more attractive prospect of remaining in New York.  The initial contract provided to Mex was for five years and a total of $8.4 million -- chump change by today's standards -- and he made the Mets feel it was a great investment.


When you look at his offensive contributions to the club, he was very good.  As a New York Met Hernandez was there for parts of seven seasons while providing a .297 AVG with 80 HRs and 468 RBIs.  While the batting average is most definitely a standout, the breakdown of fewer than 12 HRs and 69 RBIs per year was respectable but hardly noteworthy.  While with the Mets he earned 3 more All Star berths and 5 more Gold Gloves, but the MVP days were certainly a thing of the past.  His best Mets season was likely 1984 when he hit .311 with 15 HRs and 94 RBIs.  

I've very nearly come to blows with fellow Mets fans suggesting that the value of John Olerud during his three years in New York was actually higher.  He was a very solid fielder as well with 3 Gold Gloves and a pair of All Star appearances.  For those folks with short memories, as a Met he hit .315 with 63 HRs and 291 RBIs.  That breaks down to an average of 21 HRs and 97 RBIs per season while hitting substantially higher.  The cost to bring him in was just Robert Person whose Toronto career was horrific, pitching to an 8-13 record over parts of three seasons with a 6.18 ERA.  

The other first baseman worth considering is Carlos Delgado.  The Mets obtained him late in his career from ages 34-37 while he hit .267 with 104 HRs and 339 RBIs.  That's an average of 26 HRs and 99 RBIs per season.  He was known more for his bat than his glove and those numbers were indeed impressive.  

While Hernandez has longevity on his side with most of 7 years with the Mets, it would seem that Olerud and Delgado outperformed him during their tenures in Queens.  I'm not trying to take anything away from appreciating Keith Hernandez, but be realistic about how well he performed as compared to others who wore Mets uniforms.   

16 comments:

  1. I agree here.

    1. #14

    2. Olerud

    3. Keith

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  2. Great defender. Solid hitter. None of them are Steve Garvey or a bunch of other guys. It is remarkable that we've never had that 10 year long 1B who was excellent. Our best were all short term guys. Olerud, Delgado, Keith.

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  3. For example, Mark Teixera over six 162 game equivalents over his 8 years as a Yank, he averaged 35/110.

    The Mets have never gotten anything like that for an extended stretch from their 1Bs.

    Jeff Bagwell? Long-time Astros 1B star - numbers no Mets player has even gotten remotely close to.

    Heck, even Adrian Gonzalez. Mo Vaughn as a Red Sox and Angel. On and on.

    This franchise has had embarrassing long term production from everyone. Even the best - Wright and Strawberry - did comparatively little while they were Mets compared to those sorts of guys.

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  4. I can see the debate between Olerud and Keith for the top spot. Olerud was a very good defensive player (though not quite in Keith’s level) and his bats average over those 3 seasons was slightly better than Keith’s best year with the Mets. I really liked Delgado but he’s definitely in 3rd place for me. His 2007 season was meh. It certainly wasn’t close to the biggest reason but his falloff from 2006 was contributed to the 2007 team missing the playoffs. He was solid again in 2008.

    Keith’s leadership, other intangibles and contributions towards a World Series would have me edge him until first place over Olerud in terms of the positive impact I feel he had on the Mets.

    Interesting question. Does anybody see Alonso with the team for 10+ years and do you think he has a chance to climb up into the top 3? I really liked his season last year. I want to see him keep his plate discipline trending in a positive direction and establish 40hr / 110 rbi as his floor. I also want to see him continue to develop into a leader for this team.

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  5. I would add Rico Brogna as a fourth. Great defender and a good hitter for one season, anyway. Mets sold low due to concerns about his back, but he did well enough for the Phils and Braves before hanging them up.

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  6. Dan, if the Mets keep Alonso, he will be the team's all time leader in HRs and RBIs. That alone should move him to # 1, defensive flaws and all. At least how I see it.

    To add to the above list, Delgado pre-Mets had 336 HRs and over 1000 RBIs with the Blue Jays, something no Met has ever approached while a Met. Alonso could get there.

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  7. Sorry. Keith best. When he came to the Mets there were a last place team. He made them a contender.

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  8. Gotta disagree here, John. Gary Carter, Doc Gooden and a great many others made them a contender, not just Keith Hernandez.

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    Replies
    1. Agree, Keith was just one of the many who carried the Mets in 1986.

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  9. Respect your opinion Reese. Keith brought much more than numbers to the team. He was a winner, a coach on the field. The guy that threatened to punch out Carter in Game 6 of the 1986 playoffs if he called another fastball.

    There were many great players on those mid-80 teams but Keith was the leader. Pre-Keith Mets and Keith Mets were completely different teams.

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  10. I'm with John here. Keith and Carter gave this team real backbone along with their excellent production. Far greater impact than just their #s

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  11. Here was Marty Noble's take: "Too much of his (Hall of Fame) candidacy, however, is obscured by his home run total, meager by the standards of (Gil) Hodges, Stan Musial, Ted Kluszewski, Willie McCovey, Orlando Cepeda, (Steve) Garvey, Fred McGriff, Ryan Howard and Albert Pujols — first basemen all. Where is it written that first basemen must also be sluggers? Hernandez wasn't.

    He probably wouldn't have been even if he had not spent most of his career playing in home ballparks that were home run unfriendly. Neither old Busch Stadium nor Shea Stadium surrendered easily. But he was a productive and clutch hitter. Hernandez scored more runs and drove in more runs per 500 at-bats than (Brooks) Robinson. And when we finally put away all the OPS stuff, runs win games. But if batting average is a yardstick, Hernandez's average in his 13 prime seasons was 30 points higher than Robinson's in his 18 prime seasons. Offensively then, Robinson did it longer, Hernandez did it better.

    And no matter how much credit Robinson gets — and deserves — for his brilliant defense, Hernandez, as a first baseman, was at least comparable to Robinson as a third baseman. Each was best at what he did for an extended period. One is a Hall of Famer. The other ought to be." - Noble, Marty.

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  12. Wikipedia noted he won more consecutive gold gloves (eleven) than any first baseman in history. It also said this:

    Hernandez had such a strong and accurate throwing arm that, as a result, the Mets re-routed their relays through him. Due to his quick instincts, Hernandez was also able to play farther off first base than other first basemen, allowing the other infielders to play farther to their right.

    Hernandez is widely considered one of the greatest fielding first basemen in major league history. He made brilliant diving plays far to his right and left. Hernandez defended bunts by charging so aggressively that he occasionally discouraged opponents from attempting to bunt merely by reputation.

    Pete Rose, when he managed the Cincinnati Reds, compared bunting against Hernandez to "driving the lane against Bill Russell."

    Astros manager Hal Lanier said the combination of Hernandez at first and any one of three Mets pitchers— Ron Darling, Roger McDowell or Jesse Orosco— made bunting against the Mets "near impossible", and Cubs manager Jim Frey said he wouldn't ask most pitchers to bunt against the Mets. "You're just asking for a forceout at second, and now you've got your pitcher running the bases", he said. It wasn't just that Hernandez would arrive in front of the home-plate a moment after the pitch did. He had an uncanny feel for when the batter would attempt to bunt, therefore knowing when to charge in the first place. In the decades since Hernandez intimidated the opposition on bunt plays, no first baseman has yet managed to copy the move.

    Hernandez also was adept at picking runners off first base by taking pickoff throws with his right foot on the bag and his left in foul territory so that he could make tags to his right more readily. As a result, umpires began to more strongly enforce the defensive positioning rule which states that all defensive players except the catcher must be positioned in fair territory while the ball is pitched.

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  13. I also wonder how 2000 post season would have played out with Johnny O instead of Zeile. The not signing of Olerud ranks right there with the Murphy blunder as he was excellent for three years after in Seattle as well. (the length of the contract he was offered)

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