Pages

3/27/24

Reese Kaplan -- Sometimes You Give Up on Players Too Soon


Justin Turner's name came up for the Mets quite a bit during the offseason.  The club was certainly short on hitting and had a very uncertain third base situation with Brett Baty having struggled mightily in 2023.  

The thought was that Turner would provide capable DH offense while also being a backup solution at third base should Baty's struggles continue or if he needed a veteran pro's input on how better to play the position.  Granted, Turner was more well known for his bat than his glove but he does have a great many years as a professional ballplayer.

Earlier this week when the Mets made the curious decision to cut their top home run hitter from the squad going north, Turner's name came up once again.  This time, however, it had less to do with his suitability for the 2024 squad as a DH/3B option, but instead it was a painful reminiscence regarding the team's decision to cut the man loose when his career average with the Mets was certainly adequate with a .265 batting average.  

Hell, 3-6 Mets players from 2023 certainly would have loved to end the season with a batting average that high.  Of course, once he emerged on the west coast and hit .291 as a member of the Dodgers with a lot more run production and home run power it underscored that poor decision to make a premature dismissal of someone who had talent and potential.


There were others in the Mets history that could also demonstrate this level of short term vision.  Look no further than young ballplayers Amos Otis who was sent packing to Kansas City because the Mets felt they needed the veteran skills of one Joe Foy.  I won't recite the statistics to underscore the flawed logic and judgment here.  


Then there was the time the Mets felt compelled to add Jon Adkins and Ben Johnson from the Padres and they dispatched a young reliever in whom they didn't see any future potential by the name of Heath Bell.  Ummm...moving on...

How about when they sent young fireballer Nolan Ryan to the Angels to bring aging veteran third baseman Jim Fregosi to New York?  In this particular case it seemed a little more understandable given the club's long pre-David Wright history at the hot corner but everyone now well knows what kind of pitcher Ryan became on his road to Cooperstown.


There are other similar young player banishments.  In fact, one that is front and center in the mind of 1986 Mets fans is the prospect of facing scuff-ball extraordinaire pitcher Mike Scott who went from borderline in New York to All Star caliber once he learned how to use the tools that umpires rarely cited.

Going back in Mets history you can remember when gloveman sensation Rey Ordonez was injured and the Mets were not happy with what they got in a bit over a month of Melvin Mora, so he was sent to the Orioles for the not-so-great Mike Bordick.  The rest, as they say, is history.

Low level minor leaguers are a crap shoot because you never know how they will develop as they ascend towards the majors.  Ask the Mets.  They gave up on both Nelson Cruz and Jose Bautista.


This list could go on and on...Kevin Mitchell, Jeff Kent, Paul Blair, Ken Singleton, Scott Kazmir...lots of players were told to hit the road for returns that surely weren't commensurate with the abilities they would long demonstrate for their new employers.  No club is immune to bad decisions.  It's not exclusively a Mets thing.  

This thought process evolved with the Mark Vientos demotion.  Yes, he needs to cut down on his strikeouts.   Yes, he does need to claim a defensive position by playing the field every day.  Yes, a solid AAA year could make him into a future Met or future trade asset.  Still, when J.D. Martinez was brought on board the handwriting was on the wall for Vientos.  

Most felt he would get the initial week or so to play while Martinez continued his 2024 preparation, but Vientos had an option and others like Zack Short do not.  Consequently the decision to cut Vientos came as a bit of a surprise.  

No one is predicting an MVP nor even an All Star appearance by Vientos, but nearly everyone wanted to see what he could do playing regularly in New York.

11 comments:

  1. Mark needs to go on a Syracuse rampage.

    We lost Mike Scott, let’s make sure we keep Christian Scott.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Let's hope Christian consults Mike on improper scuffing.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Reese, watch this…not sure scuffing is needed:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xculjvAGS_k

    ReplyDelete
  4. It can't hurt. It might help. Then again, being young and ready to advance to the majors isn't always going to happen as planned and expected. Ask Mark Vientos.

    ReplyDelete
  5. You could ask Mickey Mantle, too, if he were still alive.

    Last time I checked, sending a kid down for more seasoning was a far different thing from dumping him.

    We could (but I'm not the one who's going to) make up an equal list of kids we "gave up on" who were traded early on and disappeared after they brought us Gary (Carter, not Cohen), Keith and Ron. Or John Olerud.

    ReplyDelete
  6. There is much speculation about why Vientos always gets overlooked. I think it is his defensive ability. Bat-only DH is not a position that you groom a prospect for - it is a position that you give an aging player that still has pop. Mark Vientos needs to become proficient at a position (any position - 3B, 1B, OF...) to have the kind of value that teams will justify a mid-200's average and a high K rate.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Very high failure rate for lower level players

    ReplyDelete
  8. Paul, I wonder if Vientos' fielding error-prone ways are in part psychological. When he was a 17 year old SS back in 2017, he made just 4 errors in 23 games. I'd imagine he has practiced his fielding for 1000s of hours since. Fix that, and a major drawback is eliminated.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I remember Graig Nettles and Mike Schmidt coming to the majors with reps as poor fielders. To me, that proof that there's hope for Vientos.

      Delete
  9. While I also hope that Vientos goes down to Syracuse, and hits like Willie Mays, there are a couple sad facts that just don't back up that hope.

    The first, as Paul mentioned is that he is a man without a position. At 24 years old, it is hard to believe that he can suddenly develop into a competent major league fielder.

    The other issue is the .259 on base percentage that he put up this spring with just 2 walks against his 19 strikeouts. Those number need to improve drastically before he can be considered for regular MLB hitting duties.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Bill, I looked at Nettles stats the other day. Just .235/.315/.388 away from home. Would we be OK if Baty only did that?

    At home, Nettles was a far better .261/.345/.455, with 42 more HRs. At Yankee Stadium a .476 slug %. At Shea, where he played 178 games during the Yankee Stadium rebuild, he had a far lower .414 slug %.

    He loved that porch.

    ReplyDelete