Over the weekend a few articles arose that posed a
hypothetical way for the Mets to fill their need for a right handed slugger
while avoiding the long term commitment of a Manny Machado. Apparently the Chicago Cubs suggested (then
walked back) the prospect of putting third baseman Kris Bryant up on the
trading block. If Brodie Van Wagenen wants to make a splash, that would surely qualify.
As a refresher, Kris Bryant broke into the league as a
rookie artificially held back (see, Mr. Alonso?
You’re in good company!) He did
earn the Rookie of the Year award based upon a stat line of .275/26/99 in 559
ABs. About the only negative was he led
the league in strikeouts with 199 whiffs.
Lest you fear he would be in for a sophomore slump, he
followed that up in 2016 with 39 home runs, 102 RBIs and a .292 AVG while
cutting his strikeouts by 25%. That was
good enough to win the National League MVP en route to the Cubs’ World Series
victory by a margin of 4-3 over the Cleveland Indians, breaking a drought that’s
lasted since 1945. (See Mets fans? It COULD be worse.)
The following year Bryant had a bit of a downturn based upon
his lofty output the first two seasons in the league. His average was a still impressive .295 and
the strikeouts plummeted to 128 for the season while walks increased. The power was there with 29 home runs but he
drove in a somewhat pedestrian 73 runs.
In 2018 he had a shoulder injury that limited him to 389 ABs
with just 13 HRs and 52 RBIs while hitting .272. He was offered a contract extension but
turned it down, hence the discussion about him being made available in
trade. The 6’5” Bryant is 27 years old
and earned $10.825 million mark in his first year of arbitration
eligibility. He has two more years of
arbitration before becoming a free agent for the first time.
With a club blessed with the offense from players like
Javier Baez, Ian Happ, Anthony Rizzo, Kyle Schwarber, Willson Contreras, Addison
Russell and Ben Zobrist, some figure they can afford to let someone else take
the risk that his shoulder injury is not long term. Club President Theo Epstein said that there
are no untouchables.
How would he fit in with the Mets? Well, given his subpar 2018 his salary will
likely not move the needle very much.
Figure $12.5 million. He only
plays third base, so that supplants Todd Frazier there. I don’t think anyone would shed any tears
over that change. He’s right handed and
fills the power void left by Yoenis Cespedes.
Moving Frazier across the diamond allows them to delay Mr. Alonso with a
good cover story until they find someone gullible enough to take the Toddfather
in trade.
The bigger question is what it would take to get him. For all of the people who shot down
combinations and permutations of the group including Alonso, Andres Gimenez,
Amed Rosario, Justin Dunn, David Peterson and others in the attempt to get the
Marlins to bite on a J.T. Realmuto deal, as good as the young catcher is, he
doesn’t have the offensive pedigree of Bryant.
If it’s not going to get the Marlins salivating, the Cubs for some
combination of that package may not even take the call.
However, it’s been suggested you start the deal with Noah
Syndergaard going to the Windy City. He
coincidentally has two remaining arbitration eligible seasons left. He too has missed time and seen downturns in
production due to physical maladies.
However, he’s got the ace-of-the-rotation stuff and larger than life
gate appeal that it might be a decent starting point. You might have to throw in a low level
prospect with high upside to get it done (much like the Syndergaard was when
the Mets obtained him in the R.A. Dickey trade).
The question is whether or not it makes sense and if it
improves each club. For the Cubs, I
would think it’s a resounding yes as 4 of their 5 starters had ERAs north of
4.00. Most are in the latter stages of
their career. They have offense to spare
(despite last season’s fall disappearing act).
Forget for a moment that you are a Mets fan and simply think
about the net positive from gaining Kris Bryant. If he could provide 30/100 while playing 3B
and hitting in the .280 range from the right side, how much would that
help? There’s no guarantee he’d be here
for more than two years, but that’s also true of Noah Syndergaard. (And remember that over 4 seasons Syndergaard
has only appeared in 87 games – about 22 per season).
Now right away people are going to say, “How are you going
to replace Thor in the rotation?” That’s
an excellent question. There’s a new sheriff in town who hopefully is not
looking at the likes of Jason Vargas but who instead might look to fortify the
pen with 2-3 quality arms. That then
would free up a Seth Lugo to take Thor’s spot starting every 5th
day. Is he Syndergaard? No, of course not. But he’s certainly delivered quality.
Another option would be to find a starter in the free agent
pool. I’m not thinking of the Patrick
Corbin ilk, but more of a mid-tier starter with a track record of quality and
health. So again, would the net gain of
a reduced quality starter and a quantum advance in offense be better than
keeping Syndergaard and Frazier?
Interesting reading Reese,
ReplyDeleteOne would have to wonder, what benefits the Mets more, Bryant while losing Syndergaard or just signing Grandal or Ramos and fixing the BP with high quality arms?
If it was up to me, I would take the later and keep my starters which would mean extending deGrom and Wheeler with the same being done for Syndergaard after the 2019 season.
This team is going to win or lose based on the starters. They should just spend the money and fix it without breaking apart their strength.
The way I see it, this just makes more of a case why Machado and Realmuto are better choices for the Mets to Pursue.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see that, too, but a Machado deal is at minimum $30 million per year for 8 years. Here you hedge your financial bets by seeing if Bryant brings success and the corresponding revenue.
ReplyDeleteI live on the same street as a active Cubs fans and our dogs walk us around the same time every morning.
ReplyDeleteI asked him earlier this week why the Cubs were thinking of trading Bryant and he said that he really only had one great year, his rookie one, he strikes out more than a player should, and he hits a majority of his home runs with no one one base.
The Bronx Bombers would not dump Noah in a deal - the Bombers would keep him, sign real talent and spend real $$. I hope the Mets do the same. Enough with tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteMack, and Bryant would have to play all his home games in less friendly Citifield, and also fight the effects of the all-too-real Citi Hitters' Curse. So expect him to not be great in Queens.
ReplyDeleteTJ Rivera is coming back, I'd imagine. He can hit fine at 3B. His .300, or Todd's .200....wow, that's a tough one.
Just fix the pen big time, and upgrade catcher.
If we add Bryant, either Frazier or Bruce (or both, if Alonso wins 1B) would move to the bench. Add their salary to Bryant's and that's one expensive player. Unless Frazier would be part of the trade, it's not worth it
ReplyDeleteBob, you add Machado at 30M+ per year for at least 10 years and Realmuto, you still have to fix the BP. Do you see these cheap Mets spending that kind of dollars?. I don't.
ReplyDeleteWorse yet, would they pony up the money to keep Realmuto if they were to trade for him? I don't see that either.
The Mets right now have a small window in which to win because of the starters beginning to get expensive and running out of years of control.
If they were to sign a player like Machado, can they afford to extend deGrom, Wheeler?. How long do you think it would take the NY fans from turning on a player dogging it like Machado?. I lost a lot of respect for him in the WS with his antics.
If they are unwilling or unable to figure out a way to make the best team of mid 20 year old with good health history and .270+ high productivity hitters, then stop trying to fool everybody and trade the pitching talent for young early 20 year olds with the same requirements.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI'm sticking to my guns.
ReplyDelete1. Extend Jake and Wheels
2. Live with Frazier until Gimenez is ready (move Alonso over to 3B)
3. Sign a FA catcher
4. Sign 2 stud relievers
Mack,
ReplyDeleteMove Alonso to 3B?
I think Mack meant Rosario.
ReplyDeleteOr McNeil.
ReplyDeleteMack, who will be a better 3B in 2019 - Frazier, or TJ Rivera? I am assuming TJ's arm is OK.
ReplyDeleteCareer .304/.335/.445 in 334 plate appearances.
Frazier 2017 and 2018? .213/.320/.405, roughly. .213 both seasons.
Frazier will be a year older, too. .195 in 2019?
Viper
ReplyDeleteyes. . The Mets should be able to afford Machado and Realmuto.
Wright and Cespedes insurance money will most likely pay for Machado.
Realmuto's contract can be mostly covered this year by moving Flores (maybe you can get some of that bullpen help with him).
Frazier and Bruce's contracts will be coming off the books soon after this year finishes.
When Cespedes comes back, if his trade value increases and the money made by winning and post season success isn't enough, then trade Cespedes.
Van Wagenen stated it himself. The Mets should be able to spend money. The Mets (and Met fans) have to stop being afraid to win.
This makes the most baseball sense without even approaching LA Dodgers level payroll.
Bryant plus bullpen is not enough for sustainable success.
Bullpen plus 30+ year old catchers are not enough for sustainable success.
These are all short sighted solutions that do not take into account the entire organization's prospect talent replacement rate and aging/service time of the current roster.
Half measures present half results.
Assemble a young core now or gather the pieces needed to assemble a young core in the near future by using the assets available at hand.
This team is so very close right now to assembling a strong core for the next 3-5 years. It would also have a reliable system to replenish and fortify the majors with a few acquisitions. It would be a shame to settle for half measures and half results at this time.
I meant Rosario - sorry.
ReplyDeleteTom, I have to respect the Frazier contract. He also is now the face of the dugout.
Mack, I understand respecting Todd's contract, but the "face of the dugout" can spend most of his time in it...we need to consider letting Todd be our sub for the IF. Hitting .195 is how pennants are NOT won.
ReplyDeleteIf Machado is not acquired, then I would want to give every chance to TJ Rivera winning the 3B job if his arm is back to normal. TJ missed a lot of time - will he be rusty? McNeil missed a lot, and wasn't rusty - hitters can just hit. TJ is a hitter. He hit when called up in 2016 - and he hit in 2017. No reason to believe he won't hit in 2019.
Tom's fix? Load up on REAL pen arms - and upgrade catcher.
The bullpen had a 5.00 ERA and cost them 10-15 more games than a superior pen would have. With a top flight pen, Jake wins 15-17, not 10.
I agree about the pen and Catcher, but unless Frazier gets hurt or has an absolutely dismal first month or two, there is no battle for 3B.TJ will compete for the utility job or will be a starter upstate.
ReplyDeleteWell at least if TJ, McNeil and Nemo are in the lineup at the same time, the pitchers will have their work cut out for them. Those are 3 grinders.
ReplyDeleteBill, I think with Todd a year older, and .213 two straight years, it really should be a wide open competition for 3B. Right from opening day.
ReplyDeleteViper, Bruce has two more years.
ReplyDeleteWhy should we throw in the low level player? Thor is better than Bryant, right now. Why are Mets fans always so defensive?
What if we keep our players and sign Donaldson? Wouldn’t that fix the situation better?
Then, fix your bullpen.
Then, find a catcher.
I put catcher last because those guys are going to hold out for top dollar because there’s too many suitors. The BP will go quick and Donaldson is the only affordable stud out there.
If we sign Donaldson, and add his $$$ to Frazier's, how much will we be playing for 2 guys sharing one position?
DeleteWhat is the injury story with Josh Donaldson the past two seasons? 165 total games. David Wright II?
ReplyDeleteIf I were satisfied with Bryant’s medicals, I’d have to seriously consider trading Thor. There’s no guarantee that he ever truly graduates from thrower to pitcher - though “throwing” at 100 mph ain’t terrible - while Bryant already has an MVP in the case. If they did this they’d really have to sign a top tier-ish starter, but they could probably also get away with a defensive (cheap) catcher to go with Plaw. Frazier and Bruce are the previous regime’s mistakes. Dilumping them should be job one for the new guy.
ReplyDeleteIf he really wants to make a splash he can decide that either frazier or Bruce can be a bench player regardless of how much money they make if their play makes it necessary. Im sorry but Frazier is the best option until there is another real option and bruce is a part time 1b man and part time rf until an injury forces him into a fulltime of. This team should run a good defensive outfield out there and outside of 1b, its mcneil, rosario, frazier until something better comes along. Pitching is their strength play to it.
ReplyDeleteFive Years Later
ReplyDeleteWhich would you want to keep as a NY Mets starter, Matt Harvey or Colin McHugh? Be honest.
Personally, I don't see any MLB team out there wanting free agent Matt Harvey, because he's shot now.
While Colin McHugh still has life left in his arm and is Wile E. Coyote on the mound with his pitches.
I'll go with Colin.
And by the way here, the "E" in Wile Coyote stands for Ethelbert.
JT Realmuto
ReplyDeleteFive years in the books, age 28 next season 2019, averages 15 homeruns a season and has a .279 career batting average.
This is what every team in MLB is pining for? Are you kidding me. Back in the 1990's he might not even be starting. That's how pathetic the MLB catcher position has become today.
So what's a viable catcher alternative you ask? I'll give you three ideas.
1. Danny Jansen
2. Josh Rolette
3. Li-Jen Chu.
On Trading an Established NY Mets' Starter
ReplyDeleteThree words, "Don't Do It."
Keep the deGrom, Syndergaard, and Wheeler three together. Quit wondering about any of them. They are all fine.
Matz and Vargas, I do have some concerns with. Improvement could be made to these two 4 and 5 starter spots.
I'd try to upgrade the fifth starter. Maybe Steven Matz can revamp himself. But I wouldn't necessarily count on him doing that. So yeah, these four and five starters need some serious consideration being made.
Would love to try and get this starting five for 2019 a little bit younger.
BTW
Gary Sanchez getting shoulder surgery.
Starting Pitching for 2019
ReplyDeleteExcellent post today by Yule Brenner, humorous too, you old goat!
It appears that the greatest accomplishment by the new 2018 Mets Manager (Mickey Callaway and his trusty steed Pitching Coach Dave Eiland) was that they kept the NY Mets starting five really healthy and bodily intact all season long. Their implemented regiment approach of stretching, long tossing, saunas, and rubdowns really seems to have made a huge difference for our NY Mets starting five and the relievers as well. This feat was no small feet, it was major.
I do disagree somewhat with you on keeping Jason Vargas in the five slot, only because he really isn't a "count-on or dominant" starter game in and game out. In my opinion, Steven Matz should begin 2019 in the rotation with the other three ahead of him, and then see how he handles it for the first four weeks or so. But having both Matz and Vargas in the same one rotation (four and five) might be stretching things a bit according to their own 2018 performances. I feel an upgrade is probably a wise move here with this.
I would use Jason Vargas (a lot) from the left-hander long relief position, where he can quiet things down and lend his veteran leadership to an off start by one of the five starters.
I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that a more proficient starter could be slotted into the fifth starter role. And this might be an excellent opportunity to not only upgrade the five slot, but also add a bit more youth to the Mets starting rotation equation.
If you can remember the Atlanta Braves during their unbelievable 1990's run, this was a strategy that they employed each season. They would re-assess their just ended season, drop the least successful starter usually via a trade, and add in their finest AAA starter going that year to build their five man rotation for the next season. I like this strategy because it is always replenishing itself from within. Of course here too, they did have Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux as their anchor baby base. But isn't that pretty much what the NY Mets have now with deGrom, Wheeler, and Syndergaard?
Exactly.
Although
ReplyDeleteI just stated above, that it would probably make some good sense to work into the 2019 Mets rotation a younger starter in-place of Jason Vargas, adding in lefty starter Patrick Corbin would be nice too.
Do teams still do the "sign and trades" anymore?
If they do...
What about Matz, Dunn, and someone else for Arizona's Patrick Corbin?
A new 2019 rotation might look something like this afterwards...
1. deGrom 2. Corbin 3. Wheeler 4. Syndergaard 5. Oswalt or even a Colin McHugh via a trade.
Then a bullpen maybe something like...
Vargas, Hanhold, Gsellman, Lugo, Bashlor, Andrew Miller, and Gerson Bautista
I hear that the NY Mets are sniffing and could land Andrew Miller. Miller got a good medical report on his knee recently.
Mets also sniffing CF AJ Pollock. He does have an injury history though. To be honest, I am fine with an outfield of Conforto, Nimmo, and Bruce until Cespedes gets back whole.
The word on LF Yoenis Cespedes (right now online) is second half return. Still speculative though.
Yankees...
ReplyDeleteI think Machado is likely to land in the Bronx. Manny wanted to go back to the AL where he knows the AL pitchers better. To me, he is sort of an ARod type of player and would do well in the Bronx.
Red Sox...
They need to get Kimbrel (a free agent) back and Eovaldi as well. Could be tricky because both are sought after pitchers and Atlanta is interested (again) in Kimbrel. The Red Sox salary for 2018 was already the highest.
Lefty starter James Paxton should be a nice addition to any MLB team landing him.
I like TJ Rivera, but...
ReplyDeleteDidn't he have a year off (2018) with injury? If so, then it could take awhile to get everything back to his optimal level especially batting and timing wise. But I still like the guy a lot. He's a fighter.
I get the gut feeling that Jeff McNeil might be on third base at some point in his career. He plays a really swift second base though and covers a lot of ground there. But as he gets closer to age 30, he could fill out more, especially upper body muscle wise. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume either, that Jeff could develop into a homerun hitter more, similar to his last season in the minors. The guy is an amazing hitter. Can actually do what most cannot in MLB and that is place his hits wherever he wants to and to all fields. I have not seen such command since maybe Rod Carew.
I watched some of that Japan vs. MLB All Star game last night. Amed Rosario was in it and did overall well. His energy level is infectious (through the roof) and his skill level will only uptick as he goes on. It's hard to remember that Amed was only a rookie in 2018, same as Jeff McNeil and Brandon Nimmo. This is a very good group of young players.