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| PC - Scott Cunningham |
Maybe, just maybe, it's time for a big shake up.
KC and the Sunshine Band just sang:
Shake, shake, shake. Shake, shake, shake.
Shake yuh team up, shake yuh team up.
Maybe the answer is to not push for a World Series in 2022 after all, since it always seems to turn into a bad dream.
Why not instead re-arm for 2023 and beyond?
So...in that regard...why not trade...Jake deGrom?
He who is fully fabulous...but frightfully fragile.
Which team might bite?
How about a 106 win money-laden team that wants to win NOW?
Yes, LAD.
Who do they have to trade?
How about any 3 of their current prospects?
# 1 is a catcher (Diego Cartaya) who seems to hit a lot like our beloved Francisco Alvarez.
# 2 is Ryan Pepiot, a righty with a 65 rated fastball.
# 3 is Michael Bush, a 2B with excellent hitting/power tools.
# 4 is Bobby Miller, another very hard throwing righty.
# 5 is Andy Pages, a hard hitting OF due to reach the bigs in 2023.
Now, I did not do a lot of research here - even to see which of them fall where in Baseball's top 100 - but can you picture getting 3 of those guys, PLUS keeping all of our own top 6 prospects here (Baty, Alvarez, Vientos, Mauricio, Allan and Ginn) for 2023 and beyond?
Seems mighty intriguing to me.
Or at least worth 2 nanoseconds of thought.
Maybe you've got an even better package in mind - as simple as you want 4 of their top 5, not just 3, for baseball's best veteran pitcher - or maybe deal with another team like Seattle, a/k/a Mets West, that won 90 in 2021 with Mets' retreads Flexen and Sewald going 23-9, a team which has great minor league prospects they might be willing to part with to take a run for a ring.
After all, the Ms have won 3 Western Division titles - but no World Series. Every team wants one that they can traipse around and show off like a trophy, like the Mets do with 1986, even though 1986 is now ancient history.
Or maybe you think trading Jake is sheer sacrilege. Unthinkable. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. Load up instead and win a Mets World Series with Cy Young Jake in 2022. Even though a 107 win team (SFG) and a 106 win team (LAD) failed to even make the WS.
Whaddya think?
Trade His Fragility, or Keep His Blazing Brilliance?
But has the best pitcher in baseball lost value with an uncertain elbow and opt out after next season? If Mets arent in true playoff race at deadline maybe they attempt a Sherzer type deal?
ReplyDeleteWhen I'd proposed this idea a few weeks ago I was surprised there wasn't violence and mayhem. I think the return needs to include at least one major league player or one due to make his rookie debut in 2022. The big side of trading him isn't just the return but the money you free up to address the MANY other needs.
ReplyDeleteErnest, maybe so. But to do a Scherzer deal, he will have to be healthy well into July this coming year. It won't happen now, in my opinion, if they feel he will be truly healthy. But a Scherzer type deal could rejuvenate the franchise.
ReplyDeleteIf they do trade him, I imagine he'll never miss another start and win 4 more Cy Youngs, though.
Reese, true. I just think of how the right move at the right time could change the face of a franchise. I think of San Antonio Spurs almost always being a top team, except the years before David Robinson and Tim Duncan were to get drafted. Those two years, they were lousy enough to draft both, and it made them good to great for 25 years. If trading Jake could be a one year pain for a big multi-year gain, I'd consider it strongly. Winning 75-85 games a year is not getting it done for me any more.
ReplyDeleteMorning Tom,
ReplyDeleteAt first glance you have to say....what is this guys smoking. But when the haze clears you give it some thought. I know the idea of trading Jake might seem crazy....BUT.
The only way you trade him is if you are going to tear this whole mess down. You trade Jake for a package similar to what you mentioned.
You sign and trade Noah....if you can get a good package for him. If not, if he returns to form you trade him at the deadline.
You explore trades for Alonso and Nimmo. I really like these 2 guys but if you're rebuilding you have to listen.
You then see what you have in Smith and McNeil...if they return to form they can be traded at the deadline or they become part of the solution moving forward.
This way in 2023, hopefully we would have a great management team in place by then. All our prospects will be starting to blossom (hopefully) and we should have a stocked farm system moving forward (the haul from all the trades).
The only problem with this scenario is the GOD AWFUL Lindor contract that will be an anchor around our necks for 10 years...YIKES!!! Maybe we can attach this contract in a trade....where is Brodie Van W when we need him.
P.S. I forgot Cano's contract doesn't end to 2024. We can only hope he gets caught cheating again...lol
That my 2 cents...have a great day gents.
First, his arm currently has questions that limit the current return of any trade for Jake.
ReplyDeleteSecond, I would consider this if our current rotation or the pitchers in AAA were strong, but they aren't.
Third, trading someone that should have been the Cy Young winner this year is, well is blastfermy.
No.
The year to trade him was last year but frankly I'm O.K. with it. This mediocre thing sucks so either go all in now or rebuild but I just hope they finally have a PLAN in place because they just seem like they've been "winging it" for years.
ReplyDeleteScherzer,Turner trade really shook up the Nats!
ReplyDeleteTom I'm still trying to get over your line about not doing alot of research here....I'm shocked as I thought your last pay raise would cover the extra time spent so back to KC and Sunshine band Tom and "Shake your Booty".
ReplyDeleteJP, a full tear down would get you a good pick. But I wouldn't do a full tear down if I did this, because I'd expect that 2023 would be a very exciting, youthful year. An Alonso could be a veteran in this team, for instance.
ReplyDeleteBack to my article of yesterday, though, with Pete. Something has to be done to not disadvantage hitters at home in Queens. When Pete hits just 12 of his 37 HRs at home, and Granderson in his 4 Mets seasons hits 61% of his homers on the road, Houston, we have a problem. Nimmo, I like - but you better have a darned good back up because he's hurt a lot.
Lindor? It was a fine trade, but 10 years was 4 years too long. Sorry. If that is the cost of relevance, the rebuild cheap model is the way to roll.
Gary, LOL. Honestly, I do not analyze more than I do, as I seek to raise issues, not solve them. If Uncle Steve wants to hire me, I'd have to increase my analysis tenfold to be truly useful. I prefer arm chair stuff.
ReplyDeleteIf the Mets want to break out of their mediocrity mold, they will have to be bold. And largely correct when being bold.
Mack, that is part of the decision to build now, or do a one year rebuild. If you decide on the latter, throw Adam Oller and Josh Walker out there, don't re-sign Stroman, win 65 games, then re-tool in 2023 and start a decade of winning. But the Mets HAVE to know what they really have. I see a Baty leading the AFL in strikeouts. Is he the next David Wright - or the next Kirk Nieuwenhuis. Or just the next Michael Conforto. Hopefully the former, or at least a Conforto-equivalent producer. But they have to be able to know pretty much which he will soon be - and be right about it.
ReplyDeleteIf Jake is deemed healthy, he is worth the sun, moon and stars. If not, not as much. If the value disparity is too great, don't sell low no matter what. Hold onto him and hope he fully recovers.
It would have to be a lot better than what the Mets got in the 1970s for Seaver - or forget it.
Man Tom you brought the fun discussion.
ReplyDeleteI am on record saying I do not need anyone retire a Met. get the best out of a player an then lets trade him before we bear the brunt of that contract. So here we are with Degrom.
I would consider a move especially if we have the ability to move him without the issues of a No trade or 10/5 rule.
but do you ask for the best prospects and return available?
do you ask for 1 prospect but you attach require that the team take cano with degrom? Imagine freeing up degrom's 32 million and cano's 20 this year. and extra 52 million to spend. how about that team having to take Lindor and we totally reset the button.
here is a trade proposal,
degrom and lindor to Detroit for Jackson Jobe.
rumors are they are interested in correa so we give them a SS in lindor and a true ace to lead thier young pitching... we get rid of last years mistake, and free up 60 million dollars, and maybe get a top 10 pick from the 2021 draft class who is years away but full of potential..
we need cohen to team up and trust someone who will say I dont care what happened before but to build a sustained winner this is what we have to do... BOLD strokes
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteStronger Message to Follow!!!!!
LOL- as somebody who values great pitching above any other part of the game, you never want to trade a superstar SP1, Who has an excellent chance of being a Hall of Famer if he is able to heal completely. You will especially not want to trade him when he is coming off of a season in which he missed half of it, but also one that, when he was healthy, was on pace to be a legendary year.
Like Seaver before him, Jacob (he dislikes being called Jake, by the way) is a New York Met through and through and needs to finish his career here, unlike that “other Tom”, Tom.
Finally, Cohen wants to win a World Series some time in the next 3 to 5 years and the only way that will happen it’s by keeping your best player in our uniform for many years to come.
Eddie, bold and interesting indeed. Very interesting. I wouldn't argue with that.
ReplyDeleteWould you then sign Baez or Correa?
David, I hear you. If Jacob (let me ease over from Jake by spelling it Jakob at least once) is almost definitely going to be Scherzer-healthy, I want him to stay. If he is going to be an ongoing infirmary person, no. I'd be very concerned he may be the latter, but I am not a doctor, not a biomechanics person. Big decisions in the face of ambiguity often set the course for years to come. Will they decide correctly?
ReplyDeleteMy guess is Jacob stays, at least until the All Star Break. Maybe the team just had a very bad collective year last year, and is primed for a bounce back. Usually, those "maybe" type things, when they involve the Mets, turn out poorly.
Tearing down the team would signify that the Mets actually have a plan. They don't. The Mets are stuck in the old ways of doing things. They have no vision on how to build a great team even though the Braves keep trying to teach them.
ReplyDeleteHere is the key: Build a strong minor league system and hire the best baseball people available to teach and develop these kids. Draft smart and always go for the best available talent without just worrying about the money. Smart trades, taking chances and signing players on one year contracts that had a down year hoping that will become valuable players at the trade deadline. Will all those players who had down years recover? no, but if some of them do, you have a great trading piece.
But then, these are the Mets and there is a greater chance that they sign another expensive free agent like Baez or Bryant than to see a player like Vientos at 3B and Mauricio at 2B.
Over the years I have learned to expect nothing from the Mets. In this way, I am not disappointed whey they do their yearly nose dive.
Viper, well put. Building from the farm up is far less inherently risky.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of down year players:
Almora had a down year in 2020, then a down and out year in 2021. He needs to sign in Seattle.
just talked with my grandson. After reading these, his response was - how about a three team trade? Trade with Pittsburgh where the Mets receive their centerfielder Bryan Reynolds as suggested here a while back, a west coast team receiving Jake and Pittsburgh receives prospects. Depending on the prospects haul, the Mets may net one. 2022 is a reset year. Mets are able to sign pitchers like Stroman and Gray, extend Thor, and develop the guys in the minors. Pitching should be set for 2023 and forward. Then the Mets sign Bryant to play third until Vientos and Baty are ready. Eventually, Vientos or Baty at third, Bryant and the other in the outfield. He said, although he likes him, Nimmo is too injury prone to be counted on long term. Opening day 2023 - Bryant, Reynolds, Baty/Vientos in the outfield. Alsonso, ????, Lindor, Baty/Vientos in the infield. My grandson calls this a mix of youth, prime core and experienced veterans with financial flexibility (except for Lindor's)
ReplyDeleteSteveM, wow, your grandson needs to get his resume in for Mets GM. Very well thought out. Only gripe I have is if we think Jacob is healthy, Bryan Reynolds, as good as he is, is insufficient. We’d definitely need a top prospect added in. Otherwise, I could live with this plan of attack. Congratulations to your grandson. Smart fella.
ReplyDeleteI'm on the same train as Dave. You don't trade a guy like deGrom. You cannot get the value you think. When you think about it, Schertzer AND Turner together got two top five prospects and couple of others (and Washington made out great) . There is no way deGrom is going to net 3 or 4 top 5 prospects from anybody's system.
ReplyDeleteAnd as you say, his health is somewhat unknown; you want to keep him if healthy and slough him off for 4 top draft picks if he is not. Somehow the mechanics of that escape me.
So, let's build around him and get him the championship in New York while he is still here. Citi Field is a great place to pitch!