Remember's Hall of Fame Ballot
With some interesting text chat chatter among friends the other night, it got me thinking about what I would do if I were a sportswriter with a Hall of Fame ballot to submit by New Year's Eve.
Before I release my ballot, a little background.
I have always been against giving the steroid crowd seats at the table, but my only argument was that players that cheated to get their stats should not be rewarded for it.
What I don't know is the past history of every member already voted into Cooperstown. While I am certain from my lifetime of interest in players that many of the past inductees were not particularly upstanding men in many regards (I would not want to cross Ty Cobb), I just do not know enough about either their character or their actions to judge them on anything other than the back of the baseball card.
So while still not being a fan of those that cheated with human growth hormones to add strength, I have concluded that they still had do take the field, hit the ball, throw the ball, or field the ball every day for 20 years to compile those stats. We can never know for sure who did or did not cheat to get in and not admitting those known players would be a disservice, so I have changed my mind and will support some of those that I would not have a few years ago.
With that, my votes go to:
I think I will wait on two players for next year: Jeff Kent and Bobby Abreu. I still need to think on them a bit. If Roberto Alomar and Craig Biggio are in, I think Jeff Kent gets strong consideration. Alomar's fielding certainly tipped the scale, but Kent was one of the best hitting second basemen ever. Abreu surprised me to some degree when I was researching the candidates. Other than the gold gloves, I do not understand why Andruw Jones gets so much more love than Abreu.
14 comments:
Wow.
You like the druggies.
I am old school. None of them would get a check on my ballot.
They never would have in the past for me either.
This is the first year I even considered them.
I was unaware that Billy Wagner had an issue - must have missed it.
I'd like to see Keith in the Hall myself. Not a Hall of Fame hitter, but perhaps the best fielding 1B ever.
Tom, yeah, that is one of the things I struggle with - the balance between fielding and hitting - the complete player profile. As you say, I think Keith is not a Hall of Fame hitter, but does his glove merit inclusion?
I will also weigh in favor of Pete Rose but not the steroid and HGH boys. Pete (to the best of our knowledge) never used illegal substances to tilt his advantage over his peers. He just out-performed them through strong will and cultivation of his natural talent. Pete was the ultimate competitor, and while that drive got him one of the most successful careers ever, it also probably played into his interactions with the MLB commissioners and made them dig in their heels. So many players in baseball history have done wrong and had fresh chances (some multiple chances) - Pete got none.
Anyone else care to post their choices?
Who is your cutoff line if the steroid guys are not included?
Great post Bill.
Keith and Rusty Staub need to be in.
Check out the Career Stats for borderline players not in Hall: Looking at Career WAR they stack up like this: 1. Lou Whitaker, 75.1; 2. Dwight Evans, 67.1; 3. Keith Hernandez, 60.4; 4. Ted Simmons, 50.3 (NOW IN); 5. Dale Murphy, 46.5; 6. Thurman Munson, 46.1; 7. Rusty Staub, 45.8; 8. Don Mattingly, 42.4; 9. Dave Parker, 40.1; 10. Steve Garvey, 38.1.
Hits: Rusty wins that category: 1. Rusty Staub, 2,716; 2. Dave Parker, 2,712; 3. Steve Garvey, 2,599; 4. Ted Simmons, 2,472; 5. Dwight Evans, 2,446; 6. Lou Whitaker, 2,369; 7. Keith Hernandez, 2,182; 8. Don Mattingly, 2,153; 9. Dale Murphy 2,111; 10. Thurman Munson, 1,558. Again, it shows that Rusty and Keith at least belong in the conversation.
Walk to strikeout ratio:. With 1,255 career walks to 888 career strikeouts, among these players, Rusty had the best: 1. Rusty Staub, 1.413; 2. Don Mattingly, 1.324; 3. Ted Simmons, 1.232; 4. Lou Whitaker, 1.089; 5. Keith Hernandez, 1.057; 6. Dwight Evans, 0.820; 7. Thurman Munson, 0.767; 8. Dale Murphy, 0.564; 9. Steve Garvey, 0.478; 10. Dave Parker, 0.444.
When we talk about “the glove getting inclusion”, please tell how Ozzie Smith became a Hall of Famer… How about Ivan Rodriguez… and of course Brooks Robinson, the real hitting threat…
The complete player should be in but unfortunately gold gloves don’t equal homerun crowns, but I say they should.
Whitey Herzog said it best = "If he saves 100 runs or drives in 100 runs - what's the difference?"
I agree. Hernandez should be in because of his defense (11 GGs), his MVP award, and the fact that he walked more than he struck out in his career
Hernandez's issue is that he played first base, typically an offense first position. Smith, Pudge and Robinson are all slam-dunk Hall of Famers - the overall best at their positions through most of their careers. Smith for his 87+OPS still had 2460 hits in his career at shortstop, and Rodriguez and Robinson had 2844 and 2848 hits, respectively.
Gil was a better fielder. One of the best ever.
Ah, the Hall of very good players. Not HOF though.
Ray, I really missed Gil at first base, so I have little to go by in comparing Gil and Keith defensively. Keith was the best ever on bunts, cutting down runners, from what I've seen. He was extremely quick in fielding balls to either side. Great sense of when he could throw a runner out at second, where almost every bang-bang play there was an out. And great at scooping balls out of the dirt. And a very accurate overall arm and great decision making. Hard for me to visualize anyone being better.
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