It’s become an old argument already but one worth repeating here about the George Springer desire felt by a great many Mets fans. To hear them tell the story, the Mets were destined for great success by securing the free agent Springer to play center field and to allow fielder extraordinaire Andres Gimenez play shortstop.
My counter argument all along was that the combined stats of these two players are impressive but not necessarily the best you could hope to get. Let’s combine Gimenez’ last full season in the minors with George Springer’s last full season in the majors to see what you’d get.
Gimenez was not known in the minors for his bat. In 2019 for Binghamton he hit .250 with 9 HRs, 37 RBIs and 28 SBs (to go along with 16 caught stealings). Baseball Reference had him projected for a pretty decent 2021 with a .263 AVG, 10 HRs, 40 RBIs and 26 SBs (caught only three times!). His 93 Ks were a bit concerning for a singles hitter, but not out of control.
Springer has a much longer track record in the majors and his 2019 full season was arguably his best. He hit .292 with 39 HRs, 96 RBIs and 6 SBs. His projection by Baseball Reference for 2021 is not quite as rosy, with the average tempered down to his career mark of .270 with 35 HRs and 93 RBIs, along with 10 SBs (and 6 times caught stealing).
Combined you’re looking around .267 with 49 HRs 136 RBIs and 36 SBs. For that you would pay probably $25 million for Springer and just under $600K for Gimenez. That’s pretty impressive and understandable why fans felt this combination was worth pursuing. Gimenez looked like he might someday contend for a Gold Glove and Springer has been very solid in center field for as long as his body will allow him to continue to play there.
My side of the argument with friends had always been, “What about trading for Francisco Lindor to play shortstop?” No one ever took me seriously that such a transaction could ever happen and they felt that the price in players given up to make it happen would be astronomical.
Well, obviously the trade did happen and right now the most conspicuous player changing sides is the much maligned Amed Rosario who had been showing speed and power before his drop off the cliff in 2020. The lower minor prospects are still great unknowns but well regarded, even if they are not among the top 6 in the ratings charts. Gimenez is what he is. Some feel he will be the next Ozzie Smith. Other think the next Rey Ordonez. I would compromise and say the next Frank Taveras -- good for speed, competent in the field but not really a slugger.
So what do the Mets have now that Lindor is coming to Queens at least for the 2021 season? Well, his last four full seasons included four All Star appearances, two Gold Gloves and a pile of home runs and stolen bases. Over that period an average season for him would feature a .284 AVG, 31 HRs, 88 RBIs and 22 SBs to go along with that stellar defense. That’s pretty much on par with what Springer did for the Astros plus some additional baserunning speed.
Now the question becomes who plays center field for the Mets and how would those numbers aggregate to present a comparison to the projected Gimenez/Springer total? Well, Brandon Nimmo won’t make anyone forget Willie Mays’ defense in his prime, but he is pretty capable with the bat. He is projected to hit .258 with 17 HRs and 58 RBIs as a regular player along with his enviable .390 OBP. Add that to projection for Lindor and you get 48 HRs, 146 RBIs and a batting average slightly higher for this tandem than the much projected one. Nimmo is projected to earn about $4 million in arbitration, so combined with Lindor’s salary, this better production comes at a slightly lower cost.
Of course, Nimmo is not the only option out there. The Mets could make a play for Jackie Bradley, Jr. He is known much more for his glove than for his bat, but he’s not Juan Lagares in terms of futility. He averages 18 HRs and 70 RBIs per season. That would make for an even bigger gap with Lindor than Nimmo would provide while also dramatically increasing the defense up the middle. Guesses as to the 30 year old’s salary are in the $8 to $10 million per season as clubs are crying poverty and his career .239 batting average will weigh heavily against him.
Some have mentioned possibilities like Kevin Kiermaier who plies his trade for the Tampa Bay Rays. He’s a brilliant fielder for sure with three Gold Gloves on his shelf. His offensive numbers are similar to Nimmo with an average of 16 HRs and 57 RBIs plus 22 SBs. The issue with Kiermair is you could say he’s a bit overpaid, earning just over $11 million in 2021, just over $12 million in 2022 and holds a $13 million salary or $2.5 million buyout for 2023. So, in addition to paying him more money, you would also have to give up player resources to bring another left handed hitter to the Mets. It doesn’t seem like a smart move.
Some mention Kevin Pillar as an option. He’s a better fielder than Nimmo, though not in the same class as Jackie Bradley, Jr. or Kevin Kiermaier. He is a right handed hitter who gives you Nimmo-class offense and probably wouldn’t cost more than the same $4 million that Nimmo will take home via arbitration. To me he’s a marginal improvement, not an earth shattering one.
The long time Dodger Kike Hernandez is one of those play-him-anywhere types who has logged a lot of time in center field as well. He’s also give you a right handed version of Nimmo’s production with the versatility to substitute in the corners as well as having played every other position on the field (including pitcher) with the exception of donning catching gear. He is very well liked in the clubhouse and at age 29 would command probably about $5 million per year for his versatility.
There are other trade candidates throughout baseball, including the Toronto Blue Jays who may have put Randal Grichuk among the candidates if they sign George Springer. Grichuk is someone who never hit the superstar levels with his bat that many felt he was capable of doing, but he’s good for a year of 30 HRs and 79 RBIs with a Curtis Granderson-like .240 average. He and Marcus Stroman had a Twitter spat recently, but Stroman is on the final year of his contract, so it may not matter. The issue with him is similar to trying to get Kiermaier. He will earn a tick over $10 million per year for each for the next three years. That’s not good. What is good, however, is the combined offensive total of Lindor and Grichuk.
Another way to go would be to cull someone’s top AAA prospect in center field from a club who already has a veteran established at that position. The good thing about this approach is the minimum wage commitment and the six years of control. The bad news is that many youngsters come up with people thinking Mike Trout and instead you get performance reeking like 6 day-old fish. Still, it’s an option to consider as well and such a trade wouldn’t require very much going back the other way. Nimmo could go in return for a right handed prospect, but that would leave Dom Smith as the left fielder. Nothing is a perfect scenario.
13 comments:
Reese:
>> My side of the argument with friends had always been, “What about trading for Francisco Lindor to play shortstop?” No one ever took me seriously that such a transaction could ever happen and they felt that the price in players given up to make it happen would be astronomical. <<
This is self-aggrandizing and not at all true, insulting to the readers here who discussed the potential of this trade. It wasn't something you made up; you weren't the only guy; Sandy pretty much floated the possibility at the first press conference. It's been one of the serious options from the outset, documented all over the internet.
I don't know why you need to pretend you were some kind of loner svengali on this one.
Jimmy
I am fine with a less-than-Springer CF like Pilaar, and use $$ for more pitching. Unless Cohen decides not to sweat the cap after all.
The comparision doesnt work because you would have Nimmo Gimenez and Springer vs Nimmo and Lindor but its still a better move because Lindor gives you more than stats. It also allows you to keep Conforto which you may not do if you sign Springer.
Jimmy,
First of all, let me say everyone is entitled to his/her opinions. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Second, did I say "readers here at this site"? No, I said my friends -- people I know outside of this sphere who were all insisting that the Gimenez/Springer route was the only one worth considering. It is a bit presumptuous of you to interject your opinion about a conversation in which you were not included.
As I said, I welcome all opinions from all sources, but hurling unfounded insults is really not the best way to do that.
Reese
Jimmy - he did say his friends and that’s the way I took it as.
I would still try and get Springer if it’s possible. Since his price tag may have to come down a little bit since we are out of it as of this moment. If we can sign him to a 6 yr 120 mil contract, we should swoop in and get him. Conforto may want the world and not give us a home town discount because of Boras. So I’d rather have a guaranteed 1 of the 2 in the OF than none at all.
A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush? Does this work for that ? Lol
Also I still want Albert Almora for 4th OF. So if we go with the Nimmo in CF version, Albert would be perfect to come in the later innings for defense. Then you move Nimmo to LF and Smith to 1st base
Zozo thinking out of the box, very nicely.
Good post. Almora would be a good get to play CF behind Nimmo and start on days where the Mets are facing a difficult LHP. Then, other resources can be used to obtain a SP (Kluber or Paxton?) and a top RP (Hand?) without going over the LT threshold.
I wonder if Sandy and Jared might be considering LeMahieu at this point given his negotiation stalemate with the Yankees?
Reese - always an insightful article that stimulates thought and discussion.
I would have loved to sign Springer, but I am afraid the Lindor trade may have made that nigh impossible, unless Sandy can come up with a very creative approach that Springer would accept. Assuming he won't, I would be fine with signing JBJ, who would provide stellar defense up the middle, with passable offensive numbers. IMO, he could be platooned with a RH bat who would upgrade the offensive output of the CF position.
As you know, I believe that Drew Ferguson has real potential, so I hope that he would earn a bench spot and perhaps be part of a JBJ platoon. I am not in the Almora camp. His offensive splits against lefties are mediocre at best. If not Fergy, I would be fine with signing Kike Hernandez for his versatility. He has a career .820 OPS against LH pitching and is a plus defender at all 3 outfield positions.
Again I agree with Herb. . Springer would have been nice, but a creative approach would be very telling. Here's one vote that doesn't think that will happen.
And yes JBJ is the best of the rest. In fact he is the only one out there as a free agent that would satisfy the centerfield need, that being a starter, not a platoon player. It does not make any sense to me to be looking at other light hitting right handed hitting outfielders when they tended a contract to Guillermo Heredia and picked Drew Ferguson off the Rule 5 draft. They now have two options as defensive replacements and occasional starters. Ferguson is my choice - similar to Davis with minor league success ready for a breakout on the big stage.
Also, Nimmo is a better hitter against left handers than some of the other options that have been suggested. And it doesn't make any sense to talk about a platoon to get better defense when Nimmo would be starting 70 percent of the games anyway. JBJ is the only guy short of a trade that would be signed as a starting defensive improvement. Last comment - Kiermaier is not the trade candidate that I would consider - he is on the wrong side of 30 and his hitting has been falling fast. A Buxton or Laureano would be the upside centerfielders that would be on my radar, although I doubt either would be available (or inexpensive).
I think I will be on the fence of this trade until I see Lindor with an extension. I probably overvalue Gimenez who I thought was the key piece in the deal (Rosario had no value to me). Gimenez showed elite defense and baserunning last year and actually outplayed Lindor (small samples I know). I thought keeping him was more of a necessity because he was homegrown talent for 600k under control for 5 more years allowing more financial flexibility.
I do think this move could add to their leverage on Springer as they are not as in dire need and made their splashy move. Honestly I don't think you sign any full time CF other than Springer unless you have DH clarity. If you have no DH you can't play a JBJ over a Nimmo/Smith...with Springer you could argue it. If you no there is no DH it might also be more prudent to go after a DJL for 3B (or swap him and McNeil) as again it allows for a massive upgrade at that position while not kicking out Nimmo/Smith from the lineup. With the DH they have a lot more options to round out the team but in the face of uncertainty its Spring or bust in CF (just resign Jake M to be a defensive replacement).
I am confused with the chatter about DJ LeMahieu. Why would the Mets want him and what problem would he solve?
The top three issues left are (1) another starting pitcher, (2) improving centerfield (and leftfield) defense, and (3) left handed relief pitching.
LeMahieu wouldn't solve any of them, would clutter the payroll almost up to the luxury tax line, and provide no improvement over what they already have in house. Please take a look at his home/away splits over the last two years. His value was a product of Yankee Stadium. Being over 33 yrs old already with declining fielding skills (and really never has played third base much), he would be a poor value add for this team.
Reese, you said that Pillar and Hernandez give you the equivalent offensive performance of Nimmo, but I don't think that's accurate. Their OBP is in the .330 range while Nimmo's is .390. What makes Nimmo so valuable is his OBP. Finding a lead-off hitter who can get on base is as difficult as it is valuable.
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