1/23/19

Tom Brennan - FAME IS A FLEETING THING IN METSVILLE


Tom Brennan - FAME IS A FLEETING THING IN METSVILLE
Let's compare at a glance two teams from our favorite big city (favorite until Bill DiBlasio became mayor, anyway; Bill D is affectionately referred to by writer Michael Goodwin as Mayor Putz):

A simple comparison, actually - franchise win-loss records, playoffs, world series, and Hall of Fame inductees - note that the Yanks' HOF list does not include Mr. 100%, Mariano Rivera, and Mike Mussina, both just voted in:

Mets' Win Loss Record: 4,362 - 4,732 (.480).   

 As you will note below, the Yanks have done better.  

To pull even, the task for the Mets going forward is simple: 

Win 6,013 while losing just 3,049 (.664).  Like I said, simple.

Playoff Appearances: 9.....Pennants: 5.....World Series: 2  

 Not very close, I'm afraid, to the Yanks' staggering #'s below.


Yanks' Win Loss Record: 10,275 - 7,781 (.569)

Playoff Appearances: 54.....Pennants: 40.....World Series: 27


But let's move on to FAME.  How have the two franchises done at getting their guys into the venerable Hall of Fame?  Well, again, it's lopsided, but due to far more than the fact that the Mets have only been around half as long.  

The Mets just don't produce and keep their Hall of Famers.  Draw your own conclusions.  my younger, Mets-fan-from-birth brother, Steve, puts it simply to me quite often:


"The Mets suck.  We picked the wrong team."

Hopefully, going forward, he is wrong, although to any objective observer, the Mets of pre-2019 and not as good as the team the Yankees have currently assembled - because the Yanks HATE being # 2, much less # 22, a number the Mets have been close to many a time in their history.  Brodie VW needs to never let up in his quest for Mets' dominance.


Let's take a look at the two teams' Hall of Famers 

(info from Baseball Reference):


Mets Hall of Fame Inductees (short list):


YearNameVoted ByInducted AsVotes% of Ballots
2016Mike Piazza1968-BBWAAPlayer365.083.0%
2015Pedro Martinez1971-BBWAAPlayer500.091.1%
2014Tom Glavine1966-BBWAAPlayer525.091.9%
2014Joe Torre1940-VeteransManager
2011Roberto Alomar1968-BBWAAPlayer523.090.0%
2009Rickey Henderson1958-BBWAAPlayer511.094.8%
2003Gary Carter1954-2012BBWAAPlayer387.078.0%
2003Eddie Murray1956-BBWAAPlayer423.085.3%
1999Nolan Ryan1947-BBWAAPlayer491.098.8%
1995Richie Ashburn1927-1997VeteransPlayer
1992Tom Seaver1944-BBWAAPlayer425.098.8%
1980Duke Snider1926-2011BBWAAPlayer333.086.5%
1979Willie Mays1931-BBWAAPlayer409.094.7%
1973Warren Spahn1921-2003BBWAAPlayer316.083.2%
1972Yogi Berra1925-2015BBWAAPlayer339.085.6%
1966Casey Stengel1890-1975VeteransManager

Note that in the Mets' list, the number of players who started with the Mets and pitched a substantial length of time for them is ONE - Tom Seaver.


 Yankee Hall of Fame Inductees (LONG list):

YearNameVoted ByInducted AsVotes% of Ballots
2019Lee Smith1957-VeteransPlayer
2017Tim Raines1959-BBWAAPlayer380.086.0%
2017Ivan Rodriguez1971-BBWAAPlayer336.076.0%
2015Randy Johnson1963-BBWAAPlayer534.097.3%
2014Bobby Cox1941-VeteransManager
2014Joe Torre1940-VeteransManager
2009Joe Gordon1915-1978VeteransPlayer
2009Rickey Henderson1958-BBWAAPlayer511.094.8%
2008Rich Gossage1951-BBWAAPlayer466.085.8%
2005Wade Boggs1958-BBWAAPlayer474.091.9%
2001Dave Winfield1951-BBWAAPlayer435.084.5%
1997Phil Niekro1939-BBWAAPlayer380.080.3%
1994Leo Durocher1905-1991VeteransManager
1994Phil Rizzuto1917-2007VeteransPlayer
1993Reggie Jackson1946-BBWAAPlayer396.093.6%
1991Tony Lazzeri1903-1946VeteransPlayer
1991Gaylord Perry1938-BBWAAPlayer342.077.2%
1987Catfish Hunter1946-1999BBWAAPlayer315.076.3%
1985Enos Slaughter1916-2002VeteransPlayer
1981Johnny Mize1913-1993VeteransPlayer
1977Joe Sewell1898-1990VeteransPlayer
1976Bob Lemon1920-2000BBWAAPlayer305.078.6%
1975Bucky Harris1896-1977VeteransManager
1974Whitey Ford1928-BBWAAPlayer284.077.8%
1974Mickey Mantle1931-1995BBWAAPlayer322.088.2%
1972Yogi Berra1925-2015BBWAAPlayer339.085.6%
1972Lefty Gomez1908-1989VeteransPlayer
1970Earle Combs1899-1976VeteransPlayer
1969Stan Coveleski1889-1984VeteransPlayer
1969Waite Hoyt1899-1984VeteransPlayer
1967Branch Rickey1881-1965VeteransPioneer/Executive
1967Red Ruffing1905-1986Run OffPlayer266.086.9%
1966Casey Stengel1890-1975VeteransManager
1964Burleigh Grimes1893-1985VeteransPlayer
1964Miller Huggins1878-1929VeteransManager
1962Bill McKechnie1886-1965VeteransManager
1957Joe McCarthy1887-1978VeteransManager
1955Home Run Baker1886-1963VeteransPlayer
1955Joe DiMaggio1914-1999BBWAAPlayer223.088.8%
1955Dazzy Vance1891-1961BBWAAPlayer205.081.7%
1954Bill Dickey1907-1993BBWAAPlayer202.080.2%
1952Paul Waner1903-1965BBWAAPlayer195.083.3%
1948Herb Pennock1894-1948BBWAAPlayer94.077.7%
1946Frank Chance1876-1924Old TimersPlayer
1946Jack Chesbro1874-1931Old TimersPlayer
1946Clark Griffith1869-1955Old TimersPioneer/Executive
1939Lou Gehrig1903-1941Special ElectionPlayer
1939Willie Keeler1872-1923BBWAAPlayer207.075.5%
1936Babe Ruth1895-1948BBWAAPlayer215.095.1%
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6 comments:

Reese Kaplan said...

To be fair, your HOF lists should start in 1962 for both franchises since the Mets only came into existence then. I'm not quite sure how to read the dates in your lists as Wade Boggs, for example, it says 1958. That would seem to correspond to when he was born, but not not when he played.

Also, I would try to substantiate the number of years each played for each team (or, whose cap are they wearing in the HOF). I know, for example, we lost out on Gary Carter because the Expos needed a representative.

January 23, 2019 at 11:06 AM
Mike Freire said...

Yanks have the upper hand, but I agree with Reese.....anything before 1962 should be removed from consideration in this context.

It seems to boil down to dollars, doesn't it?

January 23, 2019 at 1:02 PM
Tom Brennan said...

I think the Wade Boggs date is his birth year. I did not tinker with the schedule, in fear of messing it up :)

Piazza and Carter were true Mets, though both played for a long time at their true peak with their predecessor teams.

Suffice it to say, the Yanks have had a lot more Hall of Famers, pennants and World Series wins than the Mets since 1962....I see a distinct correlation there.

Unless the Hall of Fame Committee changes its criteria, Wright won't make it.

But the Yanks will also have Jeter easily make it, and perhaps Pettite and possibly Posada. Posada had 275 homers, 1,065 RBI, and .273 in 6000 at bats. Carter, in nearly 2000 more ABs hit .262, with 324 HR and 1335 RBI.


So Posada was very comparable to Carter, just played less.

Possibly A Rod, too, of course.

January 23, 2019 at 1:19 PM
Tom Brennan said...

Mike, dollars are a huge factor - more recently, the luck in getting Jeter and Rivera - Rivera, I heard today, was ready to go in the expansion draft to the Marlins, but just before that pick, the Rockies picked a Yanks guy and that made them hit their limit, so Rivera could not be selected. How lucky is that?

Remember also, as great as Rivera was, he never had to face the Yankees.

January 23, 2019 at 1:22 PM
Tom Brennan said...

Listening to WFAN today, and everyone seemed to think Cone was better than Mussina, but Cone never got past year one because he only got 3.9% and you needed at least 5%!

Cone ended up 194 and 126, with a 3.46 ERA and almost 2700 Ks.

His last last 3 seasons, he was 14-24, with an ERA of 5.93, and before that, he was 180-102 (.638%), with a 3.17 ERA - seems he should have made it.

January 23, 2019 at 1:28 PM
Met Monkey said...

Not to mention, Steinbrenner wanted to trade them both early, but then was barred.

January 23, 2019 at 1:30 PM

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