11/21/18

Reese Kaplan -- Is There a Method to the Madness?



A lot has been written over the past several days about the prospect of trading Noah Syndergaard (Thor, to his many fans).  The vast majority of people are proclaiming loudly, “Hell no!” at this hypothetical move as they are enamored of his talent, his persona and the fact he’s one of the few things that will make you want to watch an anemic Mets team even late in the season.

Many years ago the Mets faced a similar situation when dealing away a fellow you may have heard of by the name Tom something or other.  Of course, circumstances were different and he was sent packing because he had the temerity to ask to be paid at least as much as journeyman Wayne Garland.  This time it was the front office and ownership that said, “Hell no!” and off to Cincinnati he went.  In exchange the Mets received the reigning co-Rookie of the Year, Pat Zachry, gloveman extraordinaire Doug Flynn, and a couple of wildcard prospects in Steve Henderson and Dan Norman.  Norman had 17 HRs, 63 RBIs, 33 SBs and a .273 AVG in AA, so he looked like a great get.  Henderson looked even better with 17 HRs, 61 RBIs, 44 SBs and a .312 AVG in AA.  So that’s the package – two major leaguers, two prospects and an outcome most everyone would agree was not equitable value. 

Dealing Syndergaard for a straight barrel full of prospects doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense on the surface because he’s not yet making major money.  It’s not a salary dump, so those prospects in questions had better be the cream of the crop and not the next Dan Norman. 

It’s been said that they are after major league talent in exchange for Thor.  That is not a guarantee of success either as we can cite an All Star Team worth of “talent” who forgot how to hit or pitch once they got to New York.  Let’s see, there’s Mo Vaughn, Carlos Baerga, Roberto Alomar, Jim Fregosi, Jason Bay, George Foster, Jason Vargas, AJ Ramos and others who immediately come to mind. 

On the other side, there’s no guarantee Thor will ever deliver a full season’s worth of starts, either.  In his career that has included parts of 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 he’s been in 87 games.  At this point in his career that total should be closer to 125.  He’s had lat issues, finger ligament problems and blisters which have curtailed his output.  He’s not yet had Tommy John surgery, so some feel it’s only a matter of time until he’ll need the 12-18 months off to recover from it. 

Some speculate the wild idea of trading Syndergaard is part of a larger overall plan to address the club’s other needs.  Brodie Van Wagenen inherited a fairly lackluster minor league system which is much deeper at the lower levels than in the upper ones.  Consequently there are few who can be projected to provide near-term help to the big club.  If you loaded up on prospects from other organizations, then perhaps you could then turn around and trade some of them to obtain needed pieces at catcher, centerfield and the bullpen. 

If this is the plan, then you should also open the door to consideration for either Jacob deGrom or Zack Wheeler as part of any prospective trade.  Assuming you’re not going to do a 100% teardown and rebuild, one of these three starters might need to be shopped in order to bolster multiple other needs on the club.  The question is why Thor?  He’s younger than deGrom, Wheeler makes more money and is coming off a monster year.  deGrom is due to cash in (deservedly so) for his performance, but at the same time Cy Young Award winners don’t grow on trees.  Maybe he should be dangled as well to gauge who would bring back the greater haul. 

We’ve been hearing about the big five starters for almost as long as any of us can remember.  That dream died when Matt Harvey took his own flight to Cincy.  Just as the mantra in football has always been that defense wins championships, many proclaim it’s pitching that wins championships in baseball. 

I won’t argue the value and appeal of a strong pitching staff, but I for one am totally fed up with the type of offense when behind by two runs you pretty much know it’s a lost cause.  Most of the post-season teams got there on the backs of young hitters like Kris Bryant, Javy Baez, Cody Bellinger, Jose Altuve, George Springer, Carlos Correa, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Andrew Benintendi, Miguel Andujar, Aaron Judge, Ronald Acuna and Ozzie Albies.  They didn’t get there starting people like Kevin Plawecki, Jose Reyes, Adrian Gonzalez, Austin Jackson or Jose Bautista.

I’m not necessarily saying that trading one of the starting pitchers is the right thing to do, but the old Einstein definition of insanity certainly comes to mind with respect to doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.  Maybe it’s time to give up that dream of the big five (now big four plus, ugh, Jason Vargas), and think about scoring some runs.  

In the interim other GMs are already busy with Kurt Suzuki already off the board and James Paxton having been traded.  BVW is doing a good Sandy Alderson impression thus far, waiting for the market to come to him and scrap heap picking.  As we've seen, that’s not a recipe for success. 

15 comments:

Tom Brennan said...

Same old, same old. Let's go, Mets, right?

Mack Ade said...

Reese -

Good morning.

I love prospects, but I love what I have more.

You have to start a rebuild with a certain amount of core people remaining. Syndergaard would be one of mine.

Lastly Reese, have a Happy Thanksgiving with your family.

bill metsiac said...

Why talk "rebuild" at all now? This team, without Yo and with the worst pen in MLB, finished FIRST in the division for the 2nd half.

Fix the pen, improve the Catcher spot, get Yo back, add Alonso, and we're there.

Reese Kaplan said...

In addition to the issues Bill mentioned, depth is an overwhelming need as well. Without it you find the innings being given to the likes of Jackson, Bautista, Reyes, Gagnon, Beck and others that have no place on a contending team.

The one area in which I would disagree is about Cespedes. Wishing and hoping is a failed strategy. PLAN as if he's gone for the entire year and act accordingly. If he does miraculously return early, oh well, what a wonderful problem to have.

Mack Ade said...

You have to begin this season with a viable plan that does not include Cespedes

Tom Brennan said...

Bill's prescription is spot on.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Think of the 1986 Strawberry as you wolf down some cranberry.

That 108 win season is almost closer to the first Pilgrim Thanksgiving than 1986 is to today - at least, it feels that way. We need a ticker tape parade in 2019.

Viper said...

New GM + same owners = same old BS.
The Mets are not worthy of being a NY team.

One of these days a GM with gravitas will tell the Wilpons "either spend or I'm out of here"

Just imagine the heat the Wilpons would be on if Brodie told them just that right now.

bgreg98180 said...

Where exactly is there?

Cespedes's past injury recovery history combined with the late surgery date and the 10 month recovery projection has me strongly doubting his 2019 contributions.

Alonzo shows promise but has also demonstrated some questions before even reaching the majors. The team should not depend on him as one of their best contributors in 2019.

Conforto has shown promise but also reason for concern.

The Mets need 2 offensive forces to help lead the team in addition to the pitching staff.
Just filling the catcher and bullpen positions is not enough to put the team in a strong playoff position.

The organization has depended on this same group of starting pitchers to drag the rest of the team to the playoffs for the past 2 years.
It is an unreasonable ask that they have proven not to work.

Build the offensive core now. Adding 1 or 2 All-Star caliber offensive players is a necessity.

bill metsiac said...

What's the matter with a plan that includes an OF of Bruce, Nimmo, and 4to, backed up by Lagares and a generic #5 who can easily be disposed of when Yo returns?

bgreg98180 said...

Who are the 3 and 4 hitters in the lineup?

That Adam Smith said...

In addition to deGrom asserting himself as the NL’s best, I feel like Wheeler turned a big corner in ‘18, and Thor - coming off his injuries - finally started pitching again (rather than throwing) in September. I go forward with the Big 3. There are holes to fill, and contracts to clear out, but that 1-3 is as good as any team’s in baseball. Don’t F that up.

Anonymous said...

Almost Puked Up In My Mouth

My goodness what a headline already! Never see that sort of thing at the sleepy ESPN website, would you.

Anyway...

Cleveland catcher Yan Gomes?

You have to be kidding me, I hope anyway. A couple of Mets Trade Rumor sites have the Mets sniffing Yan for here. My question here are these two actually. 1. Why? Yawn is another sub-par hitting catcher (we already have three here and more on the way) with no real life homerun power to speak of. Yan is 32 years old next season and his asking price is another Todd Frazier contract. 2. How many times can one MLB team make the same exact mistake?

Possible Better Idea

Go back to San Diego and trade for either Francisco Mejia or Austin Allen. They are young (non-geriatric) with the desire to actually excel because both are very good and not just wanting another contract to milk out. San Diego needs starters with experience. Wouldn't have to give up the Mets top three starters to probably get one of these Pods catchers, although they might ask.

Yan Gomes

Cleveland does not have a single catcher worth a flip all the way down to AA Ball. Eric Haase is younger and even better than Yan Gomes. Go fish!

Simply put here for the hard of hearing...

Mediocrity is for small market teams, thank you. We are building here a championship one. There in lays the difference in strategy.

Anonymous said...

bill metsiac...

You sir are right on the money with your postings today, per usual I might add.

There is nothing wrong with an outfield to begin 2019 that includes: LF Bruce CF Nimmo RF Conforto, with Lagares and even Tebow off the bench. I am contrarian to most posters here, I believe fully that Yoenis Cespedes will be back by July 1st (at the latest) next season and able to be the old Yo' again. The reason why is simply because Yo' is a fighter and I seriously doubt that he would ever want to "go out" this way or without giving this recuperation period his complete all.

Yo' will be back for certain.

(Sidebar Caveat)

However too here, Jay Bruce really does need to come into Spring Training in tip-top condition (like he was in Cincy) to make this all work out. I'd have a trainer with him right now.

Anonymous said...

On Jennry Mejia

Jennry is obviously a touchy subject to most Mets fans. Some want him forever banned and others like myself think that if committed to being all that he can be once again, minus the PEDs of course, than he could quite possibly help this team beginning in 2019.

I am not certain where he stands on all this, or what his status with MLB even is. But right now, I'd take him over Rafael Montero and AJ Ramos if I was starting a team.

Our bullpen is kind of sort of "raw" right now still. Sure, the Mets could add in a Andrew Miller or a Craig Kimbrel, but the relievers around them still would be raw.

I like a lot both Daniel Zamora and Tyler Bashlor for the 2019 bullpen too. But I do often wonder if the Mets might be missing the boat with Zamora by not turning him into a regular starter. I am just not sure. Daniel has such an amazing slider. Being a left-hander, a 92-93 fastball and a healthy change more might make this work. Something to think on perhaps.

And then too, is Patrick Corbin here not possible as well?

If Zamora and Corbin, with deGrom, Wheeler, and Syndergaard, would that not be something really good to see here working on all cylinders?

Then could even maybe trade (theoretically speaking here of course) Steven Matz (who is always a question mark start to start) for San Diego Padres catcher Austin Allen? Hmm. Interesting. Would have Oswalt as the six starter too, with Dunn in the wings. Hmm ditto already. Makes one think, if nothing else.

bill metsiac said...

Thanks, Anon. I'd like to ask a favor from you. I have a feeling that there are at least 2 posters here who use the name "Anonymous", and it's hard to know which one I'm responding to on various threads.

Would you consider using a name on your posts? It doesn't have to be your real one (believe it or not, Metsiac is not my real one😏), but it would be easier for me to respond. Thanks.