2/16/22

Reese Kaplan -- You Don't Throw Away .300 Hitters


I used a phrase in debating the future of Jeff McNeil with friends last week.  I said he is kind of a Tony Gwynn/Rod Carew lite version.  People ridiculed what I said, so I felt I needed to check on how accurate or inaccurate this assessment really was.


For folks who remember Tony Gwynn, you are well aware he was the type of hitter you just hated seeing come into the batter's box.  He just seemed to have bat control that many of us hadn't seen on a consistent basis during our many years of watching the game of baseball being played.  He finished his 20-year career with an unheard of batting average for the entire span of .338.  When was the last time you saw a single batter hit .338, let alone do it for the course of an entire baseball lifetime?

Gwynn started off his career as an outfielder and throughout his two decades in the game for the San Diego Padres he rotated from left to center to right.  In those positions you generally look for run producing power, stellar defense or spectacular base running speed.  

Gwynn started off with great defense and speed, but both fell by the wayside as he aged and grew a bit bulky in his physique.  His high water mark in home runs came at 17 when he was age 37.  It was also the year he not coincidentally produced 119 RBIs while hitting (not a misprint) .372 for the season.  For all that effort he finished a mere 6th in the MVP voting.


During his first few years Gwynn didn't run much, but for a period from ages 24 through 29 he really did steal quite a few basis with a high watermark of 56 during the 1987 season when he was 27 years old.  He hit .370 that year and only finished 8th in the MVP voting.

To give you a perspective, Gwynn led the league in batting not once, not twice, but eight times (including a year ending average of .394 at age 34 in 1994.  For that effort he received only 7th place consideration for the MVP.


Now Rod Carew was a bit earlier in the game than Gwynn, but he was a similar frustrating experience for opposing teams in that he finished his career with an average of .328.  He was almost an equal split of playing 1st base and 2nd base during his career.  Even less of a power hitter than Tony Gwynn, topping out at just 14 in his best two seasons.  In the middle of his career he added speed to his game, ranging in stolen bases per season from 23 to 49 during his ages 27 through 32, but prior to then and afterwards it was no longer a productive tool for him.  

All he could do from beginning to end was hit.  It earned him 18 straight All Star appearances in a 19-year career.  He even earned an MVP.  You can't make that stuff up.  

Jeff McNeil is nowhere in these guys' class, but if you throw away his out of character .251 average from last season, he was a career .319 hitter from 2018 through 2020.  In 2019 he hit 23 Home Runs and was named to the All Star team.  In the COVID-shortened 2020 he didn't hit with much power but still batted .311.  

Now at best he's an adequate fielder and is a competent but not particularly threatening base runner.  However, like stated earlier about both Gwynn and Carew, you don't toss aside guys who regularly hit those kinds of averages. 

Everyone acknowledges that the Mets need pitching.  Their starting rotation is both a health risk and unimpressive after the departures of Noah Syndergaard and Marcus Stroman.  Let's also not forget about the relatively strong effort from late season acquisition Rich Hill.   

Now to hear folks talk about McNeil, they cite his disappointing 2021 as evidence that the league has figured him out and he's worth perhaps a middle reliever or a questionable 5th starter.  It would seem to me that you are involved in a classic selling low exercise where you will not get proper value for what he's done the three prior years.

The club has created a traffic jam on the infield with the return of Robinson Cano, Jeff McNeil, Eduardo Escobar, J.D. Davis and others.  The outfield is crowded with an opening day alignment likely including Brandon Nimmo, Starling Marte and Mark Canha.  Consequently there is a need to parlay some of your pieces in trades to fulfill needs.  

It's not necessarily clear that McNeil makes the most sense to go.  Cano is done in 2 years (or sooner if there's a recurrence of a PED violation), Davis can't field, and Escobar is being paid too much to sit on the bench. Some would advocate a combination of McNeil at 2B and Escobar at 3B with Cano serving as a DH.  That would make J.D. Davis and Dom Smith possible trade prospects.  

As it is, any machinations of the roster construction are just mental masturbation as no one is sure if and when a 2022 season will begin.  However, I wouldn't necessarily be in a big haste to give away McNeil due to a disagreement with Francisco Lindor or a bad year with the bat.  He's shown too much already to let him flourish elsewhere.  

10 comments:

Tom Brennan said...

Nice article. To me, a great comp to McNeil is DJ LeMahieu. He slipped from .310 to .276 in Colorado one year. Perhaps they thought he was done. Yankees got him. He proceeded to hit .340 combined in 2019 and 2020. Unless they truly feel the league figured out McNeil, which is hard for me to believe, considering he hit over .300 in 2018, 2019, and 2020, then consider trading him. But, if he hits .320 in 2022, I wouldn't be shocked. Keep him.

Tony Gwynn was unreal. My one regret is that he didn't play for the Red Sox against the Yankees, so he could have tortured them. His being out on the west coast also made it much more rare to see him play. I know Greg Maddux felt he could pitch to every hitter alive - except Tony Gwynn, whom I believe Maddux was never able to strike out.

MVPs? Maybe not. But he was on 97.6% of first year ballots for the Hall. By comparison, Hank Aaron was 97.8%. Gwynn was incredibly great.

Tom Brennan said...

It is funny that lots of people still see McNeil as a slap hitter. I do remember early in his career him really getting into one at Citifield and hitting it 3/4 of the way up the upper deck seating. Right then, I was convinced he was not a slap hitter. He may never be a power hitter - he sure wasn't one in 2021 - but that shot was a real blast.

Watch what he did well in his big season in this video - including some bombs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LjffMRkx8k

TexasGusCC said...

Mr. Padre said in an interview that he eventually learned to pull the inside pitch and hit it over the wall in Jack Murphy Stadium. That’s why his HRs went up later in his career. He was blessed with tremendous eyesight and in his conversations with Ted Williams (San Diego resident) they would talk about where they hit the ball. Gwynn said this story one time, I believe on Kiner’s Korner: He did a drill where they put a resin on the bat and threw the pitch. He would hit the ball and tell them where he hit it. Then, the ball was retrieved and examined. He told them that he hit it a 1/4” above the seam. They got it, and the mark was 1/4” next to the seam. Not only that, but he can place where he would hit the ball through incredible bat control. Also, Gwynn was very intelligent and read pitchers well. He was kind of pudgy but always got good jumps so he was a good base stealer.

Carew on the other hand was very smart too, but he also kept a book on how each pitcher pitched to him and stole home seven times in one season thing the record, and seventeen times overall. He also told a story in ani Terrie’s of facing Catfish Hunter and Carew telling the catcher what pitches Hunter would throw him and the result. He claimed that he guessed the pitches correctly in sequence and the result, that being a double down the third base line.

Keith Hernandez, in his book, wrote that the game is 90% mental and obviously the above players were very intelligent. McNeil last year spent too much time worrying about getting screwed on his salary, what Lindor got, analytics, and a whole bunch of other stuff, so he had a bad year. I hope it’s a lesson for him and I hope Eppler is patient and doesn’t do anything stupid. This prolonged lockout may help that because when business resumes, there won’t be a long period of time in which teams can overthink decisions and screw one up. I would keep everybody.

Gary Seagren said...

POST FOR EVERYONE! Sorry for the caps but was anyone else aware of all of the Harvey drug stuff? How did the FO also really screw this up and not trade him after 15' when we all knew we weren't gonna sign him...its just another FO blunder unless someone has another reason.

Tom Brennan said...

Gus, good insights on Gwynn and Carew. Yes, McNeil has to put those things past him. I think he most certainly will, since the steepness and length of his future career salary arc can be severely degraded if he doesn't get back on the right track.

And I do not siagree on keeping our hitters - I think this will be a bounce back offensive year for the team, perhaps in a huge way.
Add pitching - a smart club wants to avoid use of Baltimore quality pitchers if injuries strike, as they sure struck last year.

Tom Brennan said...

Gary, my brother was loudly (when is he not loud?) saying at the end of 2015: TRADE HARVEY!

Figured his value would never be higher.

He (and I) also said loudly: KEEP MURPHY.

Two obvious moves made wrongly.

Especially if they suspected Harvey of recreational drug use.

Reese Kaplan said...

On the Harvey thing, his manager (a cretin named Collins) knew about it and his suicide thoughts, but DID NOTHING. Terry must have had some great blackmail photos of the Wilpons to have lasted 7 interminable years and became the losingest manager in club history.

Paul Articulates said...

I think this article is right on! Jeff has special bat-to-ball skills that should not be overlooked. I agree that he is the hitter that we saw from 2018-2020 and last year was an anomaly for many of the reasons mentioned. I liked Tom's comment on Daniel Murphy. When Jeff first came up and I saw his approach at the plate, I told everyone who would listen, "This is the new Murph". We should not have traded Murph, and we should not trade McNeil. There are not too many players out there that have a great chance to bat .300+ every season, there are many teams that are looking for a hitter like that, so why would a team send him away? There are plenty more chips to trade for pitching.

Gary Seagren said...

Yes and when Recker and Collins were asked on BNNY last about they did the usual dance around a hard question because BNNY is about keeping a happy face. SMILE EVERYONE! I just hope Epplier will

Gary Seagren said...

bring stability because I'm still reeling over the mess Gettleman has caused the Giants as GM