So...
As of right now, the deal would be:
The Mets get 2B Robinson Cano, $60mil to reduce Cano's nut to $12mil/yr., and CL/RP Edwin Diaz.
Seattle would get OF/1B Jay Bruce, RP Anthony Swarzak, SP Justin Dunn, OF Jarred Kelenic, and RP Gerson Bautisa.
A 'win now' kind of deal...
An all-star closer and the 2nd WAR producer since 2009 (behind Mike Trout), for two dead contracts, a boat load of cash, and chips that haven't proved a thing yet.
Thoughts????
31 comments:
It sucks to give up on Kelenic, but you have to give to get. Unloading bruce is a great money save. The new closer is lights out..I like it!
Thoughts ? Here is one BVW is a fool...
this is the out of the box thinker? we sign a old wait really old player to get another but we trade prospects who is regarded well across baseball scouts and has a potential to be a star?
this is someone trying to make a mark for mark sake...
cashman would have pull this deal off ans traded away nothing of value gotten them to take bad contracts and all on his terms...
If only the mets were not good in the 80's during my influential years where I could let go of my allegiance.. this team will always be a joke...
We will have the 9th inning sewn up...now we have to find someone for the 8th inning... a catcher and RIGHT handed bat until YC comes back...I agree it sucks if Kelenic has to be included in this trade
This trade is garbage
If the Mets trade prospect, many fans complain that it is terrible because of the prospect's potential.
If the Mets trade FOR prospects, many fans complain that there is no guarantee the prospects would actually succeed.
I see a closer of Diaz's ability would cost $15+ million every year for the next 4 years.
Diaz costs $1 million(or less?) This year and maybe 8 million next year?
That is $21+ million saved in the first 2 years.
And how much more saved in years 3-4 compared to a $15+ million contract signed by a 30+ yr old closer on the open market?
Now factor in Cano's performance contribution.
Add tomthisnthe fact that Cano will.cost $2 million less that Bruce and be a better contributor both offensively and defensively.
And that 8.5 million is saved on Swarzak whose position can now be filled with a better performer.
Somebody may argue and chose not to make this trade
BUT,
This is completely arguable. This is definitely not a clear loser that makes no baseball sense. As long as the money saved goes back into the roster.
Big point here, let me repeat; as long as the saved money goes back into the roster!
Time to go big or go home. Mets now are gonna trade Thor to the Astros and in return get George Springer to be their RH hitting CF. Next, trade a Nimmo plus package to the Indians where the mets obtain Bauer and Gomes. Sign Harper to play RF and also sign one of Miller/Robertson/Ottovino and another reliever who gets non tendered.
C. Gomes
1b. Alonso/Frazier
2b. Cano
SS.Rosario
3b. McNiel/Frazier
LF. Conforto
CF. Springer
RF. Harper
We wanted aggressive and got it what bothers me is could we have kept Kelenic if we didn't get back so much cash an obvious question knowing ownership as well as we do. Also I guess we keep Thor now as this certainly seems to indicate were going for it.
Kelenic for Diaz is fair
Look
You all know me
I'm a prospect kind of guy.
And I have 4 sources (3 scouts and one PBP announcer) that told me that Kelenic is the real deal.
But isn't this what prospects are suppose to do? Creat a trade for legitimate stars in the game so you can go after a pennant.
I created Mack's Mets (in it's original form) around 2003 to write about the kids in the pipeline. But I'm getting to the point in my life that I can't wait for players signed in Latin America to pan out 6-7 years from now. I'm not going to be here for that.
Tom has convinced me.
I want to see one more Mets team win a World Series.
And a trade for an all-start closer plus a Hall Of Fame second baseman for a bunch of players that aren't the stars of my 25-man is alright with me.
Now... go out and find a catcher and a real center fielder and let's take the field!
Many said they wanted aggressive... they should have said smart...
Last season was aggressive and look what you got... trash...
this year you get older and more expensive...
And if Dunn is worth this deal then make him the closer and we dont waste money on this guys who no one will argue will not be worth any amount we pay him in 3 years... Your praying for 2 years...
Remember untouchables like Alex Escobar, F-Mart and even Scott Kazmir? Of the three, Kazmir was a nice pitcher but not great...the others amounted to nothing. There's a long way from A ball to the majors and a lot can happen.
This is not a bad deal, but it is an odd one.
It appears that Dunn has not proven himself ready to pitch in the majors this year. The starting rotation is in their prime and ready to win now. Not 3 years from now.
If the starting rotation is being kept, the players like Dunn are the cost.
As far as the major league club goes, I dont believe age increases much.
Bruce is 31 and Cano is 35. 4 years difference.
Diaz is 24 and a free agent closer will be about 30.
Team age overall stays about the same.
If you focus on what the Mets are getting, it makes losing the prospects a bit more palatable.
Cano may be 36 this year, but he is a true impact bat and he has been relatively healthy for his career. I don't see any reason why he cannot be a positive contributor for at least three more years. Plus, with the rumored cash coming back, he is now a 12 million dollar per year player.
IF he starts to slow down in the latter part of this contract, I think he has trade value to an AL club as a DH....especially at that price. So, I am not as worried about 2022 and 2023.
Diaz is a whole different conversation. I knew he was pretty good, but playing out west in a different league makes him a bit under the radar. LOOK at his stats for the past two years and you have to be a bit excited. The dude is a LOCK DOWN closer and will make our bullpen a LOT better.
This was a mutual salary dump (Cano, Bruce, Swarzak) that favors the Mets. Add in the acquisition of a stud closer in exchange for three prospects (one of whom is rumored to be a beast) and the deal is pretty fair on both sides.
I hate losing Kelenic, but the 2019 Mets just got a bit better......and we kept McNeil, Tom!
I put McNeil at third base and make Frazier my utility infielder.
This is a bad trade. Kelenic was the only potential star in Mets pipeline. He would have come of age right when we needed him. Nohting is guaranteed, but as good a chance as anyone. Dunn, Bautista, Gimenez, Peterson would have been a more palatable trade. Something the Seattle should have been able to live with. Maybe only send 40-50m instead of 60.
This is what I love about open threads. A chance for all to air their dirty laundry.
IMO...
IF this trade happens, it's a step closer to a playoff appearance next year.
A Hall Of Fame second baseman and a 3.5 WAR closer at 24-years old
I think it would be a great start to the off season, but the Mets need to continue to fill in at catcher and center field.
Agreed, Mack......too bad we couldn't squeeze Mallex Smith out of the deal.
If there is some cash to play with, I would love to see Wilson Ramos signed to catch and perhaps Adam Jones to play CF?
Oh and since this is starting to sound like an unrealistic Christmas List, maybe add someone like Zach Britton to the bullpen so we have a lights out lefty/righty back end?
***Oh and I am trading Cespedes to an AL club to DH once he is healthy, so he can DH!
Seagren and Mac hit it! If the Wilpons took less cash, they could have kept Kelenic. Penny cents over player sense is the wimp-out Wilpon way.
This is a garbage trade. First who is signing up to take Cano (who has a no trade). Not the yankees. Not anyone else in the national league, bc he's 36 and there is no dh. So his desire to come east leaves baltimore, toronto and the red soxs. None of which either appeal (rebuilding) to him or taking him (RS). So use the leverage as otherwise he wont approve a trade. Second, applying prospects for diaz is a fair thing to do, but even there they are being taken. Diaz, will potentially earn 3mm in year one of arb. and another 15-20 in 2 and 3. so 24mm. And they are overpaying in prospects for a player who while excellent is not getting these 3 by himself from another team. The wrost thing about this is everyone of us knows Cano and his 24-14mm per year age 38-40 season are going to be garbage. yes the mets will be better next year, but his money will be an albatross after that.
Personally i wouldnt trade, Dunn, Keledic and Gersone for diaz straight up. So it makes no sense to add that much when you're taking back even 50 million net of cano's 120. As for swerzack, he has 1 year 8 mm left. thats less than you paid for ramos last year. its the kind of money you should be wiling to eat if he's not good come may.
If this trade was cano, diaz for Bruce, dunn and gersone Id still think it was mediocre.
The trend in baseball is to get younger. smart gms are using leverage and resources to get out from long term contracts. the mets in this trade are not doing any of the three. They have leverage with cano (seattles priority). They are getting older as bruce's age 34 year should be better then cano's age 38 year.
The only way this is a good trade for the mets is if Kelendic screws up his legs and Cano fails 2 more drug tests.
i think the mets would be better off, just cutting bruce then doing this trade. There are reasons why Agents shouldnt be allowed to trade for their old clients and why they shouldnt be allowed to trade them away either. Dave stewart was the worst modern gm so far and we might have a guy who might top him on day one. Its like the necessity to do something and be on the back pages is driving this. How about you make one trade first before doing a giant one.
The business equivalent of this trade is GE buying Alstom. And we know how that turned out. Honestly being a fan of this team is like watching a friend family member go back to an abusive ex. They should know better and so should we.
Cano is not the 32 year old Cano... Have you all forgotten about what happens to you when you Age...
Kelenic could have been special.. If you traded away trout in 2 years you think anything that happens in the next 2 years was worth that? more important your telling me that if the immortal Brody would have said no to kelenic the deal would not have happened? Who the hell would have been foolish enough to do this deal besides us...
this deal should have been simple I'll take cano and diaz you take bruce and Swarzak and I'll pay about 70 million left on his contract however that works out... YOU SAVE 70 Million and i'll take your mess and the price for doing that is Diaz...
and who folds first ... oh we did...
Mack u and I agree....we're both about the same age and want post season success NOW!!!! Sorry you younger guys but the last 8 years of waiting for Sandy to act was getting real old. I need AGGRESSIVE and BVW seems to be providing that so far and lets at least give him the whole off season to finish what he's started.
BTW we saw the same thing happened last year... Stanton and that immovable contract... Marlins asked for prospect and the Yankees said NO...
you want the salary relief here's my excess...
The worst part is, i dont think this even gets them to the wild card next year. Atlanta is better. Philly will be probably get 1 of the top 2 free agents. They arent better then the dodgers, cubs, cardinals, maybe rockies.
Key here is what the Mets do with the additional money saved in this deal.
Do they go for Machado or Harper?
I was kind of hoping to hear that the trade was finished today so that we could have a return of Minaya Fridays, when all his acquisitions seemed to occur.
Not a fan of trading Kelenic whatsoever, but you have to take trade in context. In a deal on his own Diaz can get more than Dunn and Kelenic, just look at precedent. Brad Hand got Mejia, Chapman got Torres, Miller got Sheffield and Frazier, Robertson and Kahnle got Rutherford, Kimbrel got Margot and Guerra. All of these prospects were rated higher than Kelenic and Dunn at the time of the deals. So I think it's a bit outrageous to say Dunn and Kelenic is overpaying even if the deal was just for Diaz.
Obviously you throw Cano in there and that changes things. But look at what the Braves got for Kimbrel when they attached Melvin Upton's contract to the deal, they still netted Wisler (higher ranked than both Kelenic and Dunn at the time of that trade) and a 1st round comp pick that turned into Austin Riley. Obviously Upton's deal isn't as big as Cano's, but value wise I'd take Cano and his contract over Upton and that contract he had. Cano still can play, with all the talk about him being washed up he still returned back from the suspension and put up 3 WAR in 80 games. He can still play a good second base and is still a top offensive second baseman. Obviously that will in all likelihood change come the last 3 years of his deal, but he's a major improvement for next year's team if we consider he moves McNeil over to third, replacing Frazier.
I think trading Kelenic was the wrong move, i'd had rather move Gimenez, but I don't think the trade is terrible in any light.
Well said, Anonymous......I have mixed emotions, but Cano and Diaz have track records of success, while the prospects we dealt away may or may not turn out
as anticipated.
We've never had a Hall of Fame caliber offensive home grown player - closest was Wright.
Kelenic sounds like he could be that good:
SNY noted the following:
...Two scouts (said) the Mets would be making a big mistake in trading the kid, with one calling him a potential "superstar'' who is so polished that he should advance quickly through the minors.
...On SNY's "Baseball Night in New York" show, Adam Fisher, a former baseball ops analyst for the Mets, declared Kelenic to be such a can't-miss that "his floor is that of above-average major leaguer."
So, I would have substituted Peterson and Gimenez, if necessary, to keep Kelenic. By the time Kelenic gets in the hall, if he does, I'll likely be in greener pastures.
But let's see what Brodie does from here before judging the whole portrait.
TdA tendered
Wilmer not
I guess TDA is needed if either he or Plawecki are needed in a trade.
Solid enough team to make the playoffs but continue to add BP pieces and of course a defensive catcher. Pitching wins in the Playoffs and we have almost as good a staff as any of the top teams now and BVW is still not done from what I heard. The road is littered with "can't miss prospects" that missed and I give huge props to BVW to have the "stones" to stick his neck out.
Bob, Cano is a can't miss "Prospect"...Diaz too.
I want another can't miss "prospect" like Machado or Harper.
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