Dave Kingman with former Mets slugger George Foster
It matters where you play.
Sometimes it matters an awful lot.
Recently, I had touched on, in an article, how the defensive genius Nolan Arenado had a VASTLY BETTER home hitting split (due to the near-space atmosphere at Coors Field) than he did on the road.
And that Larry Walker probably made the Hall of Fame because he hit an incredibly inflated .381 in Colorado during his long tenure there.
Despite his 442 career homers, Dave Kingman, the former first overall pick in the 1970 draft (secondary phase), has been vilified by many.
Yeah, he was a little quirky. Yeah, he struck out a lot.
But I thought about Sky King (Why not? I love power hitters) and thought I'd reminisce a bit.
He played 664 games with the offensively-starved Mets, who afforded him little, if any, line up protection.
In fact, in his 7 years with the team, they averaged being 4th worst in baseball in scoring!
The facts speak for themselves, sometimes loudly, don't they?
The facts speak for themselves, sometimes loudly, don't they?
His Mets career was in two stages, from 1974-77 (age 24-27) and 1981-83 (age 32-34).
With the Mets and mostly as a Met, and also as an occasional opponent, he hit just .218/.285/.459 at Shea.
Remarkable that AGAINST the Mets overall, he hit .305/.361/.632 in 75 games, huh?
How did he do elsewhere in his career?
Well, he started out with the SF Giants, at a very hard park for righty HR hitters.
He hit .222/.298/.465 in Candlestick Park. But he was young. We all were, once upon a time.
No doubt, having watched TV telecasts of the crazy winds out there in 'Frisco, the young Kong lost a lot of homers there.
After all, I read once that someone estimated that Willie Mays lost more than 100 homers playing there.
Willie, by the way was "just" .298/.387/.563 at home in Candlestick.
Willie, by the way was "just" .298/.387/.563 at home in Candlestick.
But, by comparison, he raked at .342/.413/.664 at Wrigley Field, a hitters' park, all 3 stat components markedly higher than at home.
But Say, Hey, Willie said "enough about me, let's get back to Kong" - so I will:
Kingman had two great season starts in home runs, both short-circuited by injury:
1976, with the Mets he had 27 HRs through June, in just 74 games, and people wondering if he might take a run at Roger Maris' single season record of 61. But Kong got hurt in July, tailed off, and finished with 37 HRs.
But Shea didn't help his pursuit, either. At home that year, he hit .226/.268/.451 with 16 HRs in 235 at bats.
On the road that season, in 239 at bats, just 4 more ABs, he blasted 21 homers and hit a much better .251/.304/.561.
In his second aborted run at Maris in 1979, this time with the Cubs, he was hitting over .300 with 35 homers through his first 85 games, after a stunning 2 games at Shea (of all places) in late July that year where he went 6 for 8 with 5 HRs. Kong was raging in those 2 games.
But injuries slowed him up again, and he missed hitting 60, or even 50, and finished with a still-gaudy-for-that-era 48 HRs, 115 RBIs. Hit a splendid .288.
But...just 11th in the MVP voting. The writers hated him. He did not kiss up.
But injuries slowed him up again, and he missed hitting 60, or even 50, and finished with a still-gaudy-for-that-era 48 HRs, 115 RBIs. Hit a splendid .288.
But...just 11th in the MVP voting. The writers hated him. He did not kiss up.
Well, we know he hit poorly at Shea and Candlestick.
How did David Arthur Kingman hit elsewhere?
After the Mets, he played at Wrigley Field with the Cubs. A hitter-friendly park, not as much as Coors Field, but friendly to hitters nonetheless.
How’d he do there? In 241 games as a Cub, he hit .290 with a gaudy .608 slug %. He looks a whole lot different with those sorts of #'s, doesn't he?
Compare Kong's Wrigley stats to his stats at Shea.
Compare them to his Candlestick stats.
Compare them to his Candlestick stats.
Heck, back out Candlestick and Shea games, and he hit .243 for his career vs. .220 at Shea and Candlestick. .243 ain't great, but it ain't .220 neither, bro'.
And if you removed his other-than-Shea-and-Candlestick stats, and figured his average production based on 600 at bats, for his play at all other parks, he averaged 39 HRs and 110 RBIs over those 600 ABs.
It darned well matters where you play.
A lot.
Heck, after hitting just .198 in 100 games, as most likely a disgruntled Mets' 34 year old in 1983, he shipped off to Oakland for 3 seasons at DH.
Some guys hate grass and just want to sit down, like DHs do.
Some guys hate grass and just want to sit down, like DHs do.
How did he do there, in the Land of the Oaks?
GOOD. FOR HIS AGE, REAL GOOD.
NEW LEASE ON LIFE.
NEW LEASE ON LIFE.
His average was 70 points higher than his Mets' finale year at .268 at age 35, then dropped to .238 at 36 and just .210 at 37, but he averaged 150 games, 33 HRs and 101 RBIs over those final 3 years. Impressive career conclusion at that age.
One could truly make the case that if Dave Kingman had played his career at hitters' park Wrigley, or in Oakland where he would have DH'd, he would be in the Hall of Fame today - if, of course, the cocky writers who despised him could have put that aside long enough to be objective and vote for him.
I can only imagine what he would have hit if he was lucky enough to have, like Larry Walker, played most of his career in ultra-hitter-friendly Coors field.
Maybe .260, 600 HRs, 1,800 RBIs.
Maybe .260, 600 HRs, 1,800 RBIs.
It matters where you play.
Sometimes it matters an awful lot.
16 comments:
His power was a show stopper. You would drop what you were doing to watch his at-bats. Unfortunately, it was pretty much all he had in his game. Then throw on the questionable personality and it's understandable why he was not revered. It was more than the .218 AVG.
He missed his "era"........today, it is all about the long ball, right?
Dave would have fit right into the juiced ball era. How many bombs would he
hit today with his power?
Look at Joey Gallo's stats and I see the reincarnation of Kong.
I loved the King-mon.
Would give Lowrie a lot of competition as a PH this season.
Gentlemen, he was the only Met who to me was a must-watch during his first tenure in Queens. Flawed, but FUN!
Agreed. I loved watching his at bats. When he got his pitch, there was little doubt about it. Certainly, all that is mentioned above kept him from the HOF. (I believe he once sent a dead mouse in a box to a female reporter.)
I was glad to see that he came out for the closing of Shea 12 years ago.
Also, if Kingman had played for the White Sox, he would have spent some time with both New York teams and both Chicago teams. If he had played for the Dodgers, he would have spent some time with both New York teams and all five California teams.
I still have an affinity to Cespedes similar to Kingman. It will be interesting to watch Cespedes 2020.
I think Kingman is a fascinating player, though my focus would not have been on park factors, but on WHEN he played.
That is, before the statistical revolution that changed the way we perceive hitters. Back then, average was still the first thing anybody mentioned.
He was, in some ways, the original "Three True Outcomes" hitter. Not quite Adam Dunn, because Kingman didn't walk enough, but more valuable than fans collectively realized at the time. I wonder if he came along at a different time, he would have been encouraged to walk more. Ultimately, Kingman's bad OBP holds him back from being a good player.
But Tom is right that his three seasons with the Cubs were quite excellent.
Definitely a douchebag. But I've often wondered how he'd be more valued through today's lens.
So for me, it's always been much more about WHEN he played, than WHERE.
Jimmy
Kingman value $$ wise...if Chris Davis can get a $100 million plus contract, even a “douchebag” like Kingman would have been an extremely wealthy man.
Just to be clear: you don't need to pretend he was some good guy.
It is a disservice to decency to suggest, as you clearly do, that he wasn't liked because: "He did not kiss up."
This prick sent a rat in a gift box to a woman reporter, and followed that up with an ugly spew of macho garbage.
I don't respect that.
Happy to talk about him as an athlete, analyze his career on the field, but not going to pretend he was a good guy who wasn't liked by writers because he was honorable and didn't kiss up.
Jimmy
To me watching the games, King Kong (in this era) was basically baseball's equivalent to Chuck Conners aka "The Rifleman". Same basic persona and attitude.
Dave Kingman was probably the first true homerun maker the NY Mets had. He was the start of things to come here.
I was very glad to see that the NYM organization was giving JD Davis a shot at third. Why not really? There is no heir apparent at third now, with Todd Frazier now with another team.
Spring Training to me should be all about fresh starts and new looks. No one desiring a shot for a open position should ever be overlooked, unless of course the organization thinks that they have another position locked up.
JDD kind of reminds me of another NYM player. Kevin Mitchell. But with more skills than Kevin had and a better attitude. This JDD is an energy player. Never overlook these kinds of players is my advice.
Theoretically speaking here, the NYM could go with a platoon of McNeil and Cano on second that utilizes scheduled weekly rest for Robbie since he is probably going to be more primal with a day or two off every week/six games. Then Robbie could use one day to sub-in for JDD at third, providing JDD's skills at third prove ample during ST.
And then too, Jeff McNeil could play four on second, and one or two games subbing in for the outfield corner positions.
I just would like to see with all this, scheduled games off for every single NYM player starting so that come playoff time, every single starting player on this 2020 Mets team is in prime condition and shape for it.
In this way, all three (Robbie, Jeff, and JDD) would play five of six weekly games (the normal amount of games each week throughout the season overall).
Thought for food.
When re-read, the above posting I made was confusing even to me with schedules for these three players. It probably won't matter but let me try this again for the sheer fun of the English language.
Per weekly six games:
Jeff McNeil (5) games per week - 1 sub third, 2 sub second, 1 sub left field, 1 sub-right field Reasoning: Jeff is as natural an athlete as a player can get. He has the ability to play multiple positions and really well. He is a rare species unto himself and could probably play baseball on the moon as well. As long as Jeff gets his at bats, he will thrive in this league. As a rookie last season, his adjustment to different positions for the Mets was the most impressive that I have ever seen since Pete Rose. Although Jeff is a much better defensive player than Pete ever was. My point is that changing positions didn't really seem to affect Jeff's offensive prowess.
JD Davis (5 games per week) - Depending on how he shows in ST, JDD would play five games on third base. Otherwise, JDD plays platoon with Yo' in left field.
Robbie Cano (4 games per week ) 2 PH (which this team really needs badly)
Sidebar: Sure wish the NYK could learn how to rest their starters soon. Robinson and Randle in particular. Naz.
From my online readings lately regarding this NYM team, everything looking on course now with both Luis and Jeremy doing their thing. I liked Rojas and Hefner from the start, and the best part here is that so do the 2020 NYM players.
This is so good because the number one advantage that the 2019 NYM team had was team chemistry. In this way, with Rojas and Hef, team chemistry will not only be preserved, but possibly even expanded.
We are blessed as fans I tell ya'! LGM!
Ed Charles was the absolute definition of a skilled and cool as a cucumber NYM player, as one could ever be. The difference in the 1969 WS, was to me, that Baltimore had several talented veteran star players and the Mets had players like Charles, Cleon, Tommie, Eddie, Buddy, and Ronnie. And in this WS, determination won.
Number 5 will be very missed by fans like me. Mr. Charles was so smooth and a real confidence builder for this 1969 team. His being there then, meant everything.
COVID19
What to do?
The usual really. Try to stay fit, get some exercise in if you can and are able to, eat healthier (veggies and fruit too), getting your 7-8 hours of sleep in could help you stay well and avoid this virus. In this way a person's immunity system can stay optimal and effective and combat this virus.
Read up (online) for more ways to identify this virus. And get tested if you feel more tired/run down than usual, have a sore throat, headache, or a fever, or just feel sort of "achy breaky" and with a cough.
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