Terry Collins' Line Up for September


Today, Saturday, September 2nd of the 2017 season, the New York Mets stand 22.5 games beyond the Nationals and 13.5 games out of the Wild Card spot.

Their record is 58 wins and 75 losses, or .436 percentage.

This means they are well below mediocre, out of the playoff hunt and now turn their attention to allowing younger players to begin to gain invaluable playing experience which may yield hope for 2018.



This is Terry Collins, who has always played his veteran players, no matter how poorly they performed, in order to maintain some semblance of popularity in a lost club house made up of divided loyalties.

He even signaled, once the pressure built from the fan base to promote thrilling Amed Rosario, that he would not simply let Rosario play the last 7 weeks of the season as any other manager would.  Collins warned us that the 21 year old with energy bursting from him, might get "tired" and need rest.

This is Collinspeak for "I heard Cabrera's complaints and demands and I will yield to them when I can just like I do for all veterans on this team."

Gavin Cecchinni, Matt Reynolds and Brandon Nimmo have ridden the bench, with only Nimmo cracking the line up due to injury.

Collins even went as far as to tell us that he had to play "some" vets (Cabrera) to "show" other teams what he could do.

The September First trade deadline for post season came and went without any meaningful offers for Asdrubal Cabrera.  The Mets would have taken a box of baseballs for him, had someone offered it.

                                   No one wanted him.  

He is poison in the club house.

Did you catch him showing up the Mets 3rd base coach gesturing, "why didn't you send him?" on the base hit?

Today, Saturday, September the 2nd of a lost season please note:

Jose Reyes is leading off and playing 2nd base, and Cabrera is playing 3B and batting third.

Few, outside of those who write here, expected to see either in the line up once the September 1 deadline had passed and the roster expansion hit.

Kudos to the Mack's Mets writers here who have noted both the language and the pattern of Collins' ineffective management this year, and have stated it plainly for its readers. 

The 2017 New York Mets were a divided leaderless team, acutely missing David Wright, with a few rotten apples infecting some of the youth, and the overall celebration of mediocrity that we witnessed.  It lacked the character to pull together after key injuries.  It allowed a few selfish "me first" players to go undisciplined which emboldened others.  

With the departure of Curtis Granderson and Jay Bruce went our veteran leadership, so what did Terry Collins do?

He scolded the lone all-star, Michael Conforto, privately and to the press, that he was not "ready" to be a leader. 

This was something he should have kept private, even if it was necessary.  

Jay Bruce was diplomatic when he spoke to the media, expressing hope that kids "would be" in the line up. It was as close as he could possibly come in appropriately pressuring management to bench (and discipline) slumping veterans and let kids play, without hurting his own future contract negotiations with other teams.

Reyes batted .174 in April, .216 in May, 
and .213 in June, along with poor defense and poor base running.  Those lost games would not be recovered by him heating up in July.  

It was leaked out in early August, Sandy Alderson's advised concern of promoting Amed Rosario into the troubled clubhouse, particularly with Cabrera.  Although I wanted Rosario promoted, this was a wise and informed vantage point of Alderson's.  

As Reyes attempts to teach Rosario and Dom Smith how to dance and celebrate sub .500 baseball, I continue to hope that we will see reactions such as Smith has shown; respectful acknowledgement of the veteran dancer, while also not sharing in the enthusiasm of it. 

Perhaps it is that Dom Smith has winning on his mind, instead of making a fair show for the camera in a lost game, over a personal success.    

This would be refreshing.  

It is the attitude of winning teams.  

Recall the 1967 internal "controversy" that Tom Seaver inadvertently caused when he, and a few other young players, failed to embrace the "lovable loser" mentality of the Amazin' Mets, since their birth in 1962. 

Suffice to say that any split in the clubhouse of 1967, including "put off" vets who did not like the 22 year old Seaver telling them to lift weights, mended with the shift of winning side, which lead to the miracle of 1969.  

Let's hope that Terry Collins is not back next year and that the "me first" players are disciplined, held accountable, traded or remain on the DL, so that the hungry young ones can, in the least, give it their all.  

Keith Hernandez said it best:  we know what Travis D'Arnaud brings.  Maybe the last month of the season we should see what Kevin Plawecki can bring.  This discussion went to the overall theme of the Mets looking towards next year.  Keith said that after giving up 7 runs in 2 innings, the Mets should let Harvey start the third inning, letting him try to work out what is wrong.  

Instead, we got Tommy Milone.  

At least we got to see Jose Reyes almost get picked off, then have Keith remind us of Reyes' poor base running decisions in the last series in Cincinnati, only to have Reyes then picked off...by a right hander.  

I understand that Collins is likely a good man.  This criticism is solely of his managerial style, including the 2015 World Series, the management of various Spring trainings, and the lost year of 2017. 


Anonymous said...

TC only liking veterans is a nonsense fan narrative.

Those comments about Rosario needing some "rest" were uttered by Sandy Alderson before they were said by TC. So TC was likely just echoing what he was told from the GM....not TC preferring vets all the time or expressing his displeasure with having to play Rosario. And Rosario has played nearly every day, so if TC hates young players and only likes vets he certainly isn't showing it with Rosario.

Similarly those comments about Conforto were just in response to the media desperately needing some lame storyline and choosing "can Conforto be a leader" as one of those things. TC was right in telling Conforto not to worry about that nonsense to just go out and play.....it wasn't "scolding" him. And he wasn't wrong in telling the media the same thing, since it was a media created issue.

And I am no fan of Reyes, whatsoever, but there is no one attitude to winning teams when it comes to whether they should be allowed to show emotion on the field. And I wanted Cabrera gone, but playing him likely isn't a TC-only decision either since the team is debating whether to pick up Cabrera's option next year. Not to mention, Sandy publicly dismissed the notion of the team needing to see more of Cecchinni. TC plays who the front office tells him to.

As for the Harvey thing, he was getting smacked around and already up around his pitch count. No need to send him back out for another inning. People were criticizing the Mets for letting him pitch at all, now they want to get on them for not letting him pitch enough? Keith is kind of stuck in the dark ages. I am ready for the Mets to move on from TC, but I'd hope whoever the new guy is isn't taking advice from Keith - he's more old school than Terry

Peter Hyatt said...

so much folly in one post:

I'd sign it "anonymous" too.

A few points: Collins' play of vets...well, no comment. Simply review the line ups the last few years.

As to display of celebration and "old school", there is a strong link between those who do not refrain their emotions in competitive sports and domestic violence.

As to Keith being old school, is old school now wrong? This is the age of absurdity argument where people who put out a flag of their country 8 years ago are now "bad" people. That which was successful yesterday must, by necessity, be wrong today is the principle.

Up is down, wrong is right, and right is now wrong.


Hey, perhaps having a 35 year old waiver wire playing outfield in Houston is to play for the future.

I follow you.


Rds900 said...

Checked the obits this morning and did not see TV's name. Another sad day for the Mets.

Thomas Brennan said...

I hate the 40 man roster limit - I wish the rule was that you could expand to 40 while not worrying about the 40 man in September.

If so, I'd call up Jeff McNeil and Phil Evans immediately.

Jeff got screwed by this injury thing in 2016 and 2017, missing over 200 games, but he is .310/.366/.462 in 2017 anyway in 46 games, and has fanned less than once every 2 games in his career.

Phil Evans has been on fire for Vegas since the start of July (.335/.400/.550).

Versatile Evans is a lot like Flores but with not as much pop...so Mets, let's check him out. Sit Reyes. Sit Cabrera. We've seen them enough in 2017. Honestly.

Thomas Brennan said...

Jayce Boyd too - he also has had his injury-plagued stuff, and on June 27, sat at ,224/.306/.388 in AAA.

Since then, he's been about .340/.410/.600. Killing it

Reese Kaplan said...

TC had to be doing cartwheels when Flores broke his nose, not that he ever wanted anything bad to happen to his currently best hitter, but that now he wouldn't have to figure out a justification each day not to put him in the lineup. With his injury, that stress of sitting him for a veteran is gone.

Thomas Brennan said...

Reese, when does Wilmer (with 1582 major league plate appearances) get perceived as a major league veteran?

Peter Hyatt said...

Jose Reyes leading off...

35 year old Waiver batting 2nd...

A Cabrera batting third....

very frustrating to watch.

Anonymous said...

Collins did get some "youth" out there so stop your complaining: Matt Reynolds in at SS for Amed.

Let's hope it is not injury related and just Collins' brain, as he is confused cuz he cannot roll out Kevin PLawecki

Thomas Brennan said...

Everyday is Old Timer Day at Shea!

Reese Kaplan said...

Wilmer needs a reverse "Just for Men" to add some gray hair and then he may get noticed.

Adam Smith said...

Cabrera needs to go. He at least needs to sit for the rest of the season. I don't want his option picked up. I don't think that he helps next year at either second or third, at any price. Reyes needs to go too. Throw in David Wright's retirement and I'd be fine with an all kids infield next season.

TexasGusCC said...

I used to think that Collins was a good guy, but I have changed my tune. I call him Bozo the Manager for his managerial style, but I call him a gutless bully for how he treats kids. Good guys are fair guys, they are in fact, good men. Treating kids like crap because he can makes him a loser and a piece of .....(can I please say it?). Spineless and gutless, he is a loser of the highest order and as far as I'm concerned, so is Alderson who permits and empowers it. If it isn't Alderson and it is in fact Fred Coupon, then that's even worse and this franchised is screwed more than we realize.

The Mets need to win next year, very simple. The window with Syndergaard, deGrom, and whoever else can stay healthy and pitch well will only stay open so long. You cannot waste one of those years. The best thing for the Mets franchise is for Alderson to become a consultant or just retire and have another GM choose his manager. There are some pieces to work with, but there is also a pretty barren minor league system and much time has been lost that could have been used to see the youngsters, however, does it sound like anybody really cares?

Peter Hyatt said...

Even if we were going to keep Cabrera or Reyes as utility role for next year, we are:

20 games below .500

It is September

Kids are sitting on the bench.

Is there the next Justin Turner riding the pine, at age 22-26, while 35 year old waiver wire player gets innings?

This is the New York Mets under Terry Collins and/or Sandy Alderson.

20 games under .500. Who woulda thunk it?

The experience of MLB at bats is sooooo valuable. Look at Dom Smith. He is seeing stuff at a level he did not know existed. He is adjusting. He is being allowed to play through things.

This should be the theme (and hope for fans) of the lost September.

It is beyond explanation and beyond frustration.

Peter Hyatt said...

Blogger Adam Smith said...
Cabrera needs to go. He at least needs to sit for the rest of the season. I don't want his option picked up. I don't think that he helps next year at either second or third, at any price. Reyes needs to go too. Throw in David Wright's retirement and I'd be fine with an all kids infield next season.

Well said.

Then we always have the possibility of off season signing or trade. Texas Gus is also right about the need to win next year (and 2019) given the expiration date of the arms. We've got a special SS now. We must protect him from bad influences.

When a team is 20 games under water and a veteran who had demanded a trade, humiliated management, can yell over to a third base coach for NOT sending a player so he, selfish vet, can get a meaningless RBI, there is an infection within a team that needs to be eradicated.

We do not want Rosario and others tainted.

Peter Hyatt said...

Addressing the anonymous poster re culture of winning:

PHil Mushnick wrote about how Maine Youth Sports cannot keep referees in their hockey leagues.

This is not due to hours, pay or even players and coaches.

It is due to parents.

I am in Maine and my son is in the league. He reported accurately.

Sportsmanship matters in life. Human empathy for the defeated foe is empathy for weakness. It keeps our society together. In screening new hires for law enforcement, I use sports in the interview and profile process to learn if the applicant, who will be holding lethal force in authority, has a NEED to be respected, increasing the danger to society, or if he seems himself as a servant (protect and serve) and has empathy for weakness.

It matters.

The breakdown in civility is evident in our youth sports. When posing, taunts and such are praised and repeated on ESPN, and unpenalized, expect kids to follow suit.

I coached Little League one year in Maine. By the halfway point, my wife could no longer attend games. She feared, physically, two of the moms due to threats of violence.

One father said, "I am going to investigate you" because I told his son to stop talking incessantly, interrupting, and let other kids and I speak.

You can guess what his profession was and the size of his ego.

Winning teams outclass losing teams. Take a look at what the Astros did to us and how they did the little things right, and pulled together, even on adversity, including when hit by pitch.

They were impressive and we were embarrassing.

But hey, we lead the league in hair dye and showboat dancing!

Celebrate 20 games below mediocre!

Anonymous said...

did you see line up today? happy labor day lots of vets

Peter Hyatt said...

The line up has been announced.

I'd like to see Matt Reynolds and Travis T and others fighting for the experience of at bats. Reyes, Waiver signing 35 year old and Cabrera in the 1, 2, 3 slots. At least we have Gavin C at 2B.

Dom Smith, who is starting to figure out pitches, batting fourth? I recall someone there saying "we won't, you know, put pressure on him by batting him clean up at home or anything..." but I don't have the exact quote.

I put the article on Twitter...

I don't think Met fans are pleased at the line ups in September.

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