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| PC - Ed Delany |
The Yankees just extended Luis Severino and Aaron Hicks to a combines 11 years and over $100 million. I hear both are hurting and the season hasn't started.
In effect, the Mets "extended" Jed Lowrie this year and Todd Frazier last year by signing them to 2 year deals. How's that looking?
Imagine, if you will, if Denny McLain were pitching today, having just completed his 1969 season - should he be extended?
The hordes would scream, "YES, YES, YES!!" If the Wilpons were slow, they'd be calling them cheap - and worse.
After all, here is what he did:
Age 21 - 1965 - 16 wins, 6 losses, 2.61 ERA, 220 innings, 192 Ks
Age 22 - 1966 - 20 wins, 14 losses, 3.94 ERA, 264 IP, 192 Ks
Age 23 - 1967 - 17 wins, 16 losses, 3.79 ERA, 235 IP, 164 Ks
Age 24 - 1968 - 31 wins, 6 losses, 1.96 ERA, 336 IP, 280 Ks
Age 25 - 1969 - 24 wins, 9 losses, 2.80 ERA, 325 IP, 181 Ks
So in those 5 seasons, he was 108 wins, 51 losses. At age 25, he was already 114 and 57. Hall of Fame bound, no doubt about it.
If it were today, we'd be screaming "EXTEND HIM, EXTEND HIM!"
"Give him 7 years, $200 million!!"
But:
After age 25, how did Denny do? Denny did doo-doo, that's how.
The rest of his career spanned just 3 years, in which he went 17-34, 4.78.
He retired at age 28.
Extending pitchers can be a risky business. Just ask Jhoan Santana.
15 comments:
Good read
Extending hitters can be risky business, too...ask some guy named Yo something...
We could come up with dozens of examples...just ask David Wright.
Tom,
Putting a team together requires taking risks. You can't just decide that you won't sign the face of the franchise in say deGrom just because it might be risky.
Put it another way, if deGrom were to become a free agent after 2019, teams would line up to sign him to 5 or 6 year deals.
How many bad deals have the Yankees made lately? how many championships?
If you're no in it to win it, might as well sell the team.
Yo was not extended He was signed as a FA.
A lot of people (myself included) wanted Jose re-signed for more than the crazy deal the Fish offered, despite his chronic hammy/quad issues. How did that work out?
Signing free agents is very different than extending players already under contract. It's not helpful to the discussion if we confuse the two things.
I'm with Viper. There are risks involved in attempting to win. That's why some paper-pushers loved Sandy. He was risk-averse.
And all they did was lose, badly, most of the time.
In the end, need some luck -- and a lot of good talent evaluators in the organization -- and some more luck.
Jimmy P
Viper and Jimmy, I am not against extending deGrom...just pointing out that what looks like gold today be become dross the next day, I'd like to see the whole salary deal restructured. Pay pitchers better, sooner, and limit pitcher contracts to 3 years. Edwin Diaz making just $607,000 This year is an utter disgrace.
I know pitchers actually pitched a bit more back in the day, but DAMN! Look at the number of innings pitched for Denny!
1380 innings pitched over five years (276 average)......no wonder his arm nearly fell off.
I think extension are risky, but that's why you control the number of years, right? Someone like Jake over a three or four year extension wouldn't be the same as six, seven or eight years.
Or thirteen, right Bryce!
Thomas,
I know your point. I'm just saying that the Mets are build to win now. They cannot now start losing because the pitching becomes mediocre and they get shy about signing their one true ace or other building block type players.
deGrom, Syndergaard, Wheeler and Matz must be kept together a long as possible. At this point, I rather lose Matz than Wheeler.
Every team has bad contracts. Yankees have a dandy with Ellsbury. We have Cespedes but if he comes back healthy around the All Star, that would be like signing a Harper type player. Our lineup will go from very good to great.
Viper, I am with you. Win in 2019. 2020 we can worry about in 2020. Jake either gets extended now, or the Mets get another crack in 2019-20 off season. I would not mind seeing him get 5 years, $125 million, including 2019 and 2020. Jake might want more.
My sense is that Zack is not a NY guy and wants to go free agency, period.
Logic might say he'd entertain an extension -- guy has been hurt most of his career -- but my gut feeling tells me he's not eager to sign on for X more years in the Big Apple.
Also, it's just a timing issue. They couldn't really dream of extending him until now. And from his POV, he's a free agent come October.
I think he's gone.
Jimmy P
Judgers and Jaggernuts
Man, thank God that none of us run the NY Mets or they'd be in a tough spot always. LOL
A Few Thoughts
1. Wheeler is a NY pitcher in my opinion. Comes in, does the job well, punches the clock, gets ready for his next day's work, complete professional. Not everyone has to wear pantyhose or get shaved by Farrah to be a NY sports athlete. Let Zach's record speak for itself.
2. On Tim Tebow...Currently: Broxton .211 BA and Lagares .206 BA. Pick one. Carbon copies really. Or better yet keep Raja and Dominic and wait for Tebow to be ready sometime early on May. Pretty"Endy catches" in center field are nice and all, but I would much rather see more offense off the bench from the 4 and 5 outfielders than we have seen over recent years.
3. Mack, can you be the backup catcher?
4. Jake's contract...See what he does in 2019, then decide. he only has one more 4 or 5 year contract left in him, unless clones.
5. The big "Spider Man" hasn't been signed yet. Maybe offer him one year at $1.5 mill. Let his huge insect ego digest that! LOL
6. Don't trade for CF Jacoby Ellsbury, age 49. That ship has sailed I tell ya'. It ain't coming back in no time soon!
7. Quote me on this..."Tyler Bashlor will be a career Met closer for the books one day Howie. Buy his stock shares."
8. Jeff McNeil is currently upping the power game very nicely as he goes. Was fine with his hitting in 2018 actually. Excellent eye and fabulous approach to hitting. Mets' fans need Jeff to reproduce, as in have a lot of kids. That simple. Put one child on Mets second, shortstop, third, left and right fields in 2041. It's reasonable, right?
9. Dominic Smith is quite the story this Spring Training. Looks like he worked hard all winter, got into great shape, feels better all around playing, and is making a name for himself here now. Kudos to the man.
10. Tom Seaver. As great a pitcher and person as Tom Seaver always was and is, all the Mets' records he so easily attained, the thing I always think of and remember first off when I hear Tom's name is the unbelievably funny Kiner's Korner (after game shows) when Tom and Ralph were cracking each other up hysterically and that contagious/silly laughter. That's how I always remember Tom Seaver and I always will. Stay well.
Bribery Collegegate and Other Mental Stuff
Look, in five to ten years 75% of all brick and mortar schools, colleges, and universities will have been made obsolete. It will all be online, all the material and all the curriculums. It will be universal video teaching, computer scored, results coming back to your laptop. Students finally will be able to move forward at their own rate and speed. For instance, thru high school in eight years not the twelve it takes now. Then off to college. Or fifteen years because that student may have to work to help support their family. Whatever. Think of it as one big Phoenix University for the entire nation. Only curriculums requiring hands on teaching and support will be the exception. And possibly too, like K thru grade 4 so that children can acclamate to other children somewhat at least, and be exposed to germs and diseases which actually help develop that child's own immunity system function.
Special treatment has always existed in this country when it came to college/university selection. Look at some of the Presidents and athletic programs for that clue.
I agree with you on automation streamlining the college-industrial complex soon.
I was at today's game in St Lucie. Lagares was distinctly unimpressive. I like Broxton as a 5th OF...He fans a ton, but Does other things very well (defend, run, walk).
Tebow was 4-15 and a walk and just 3 Ks and some hard outs. He could be up sooner than Sept., especially if Cespedes' return is delayed.
Some guy at the game said he really liked Bashlor too...future closer? Not so sure. We got Edwin, the best. McNeil and Alonso impressed me today.
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