1/5/13

Mack Ade - New Mets Outfield Rumors

14 comments



Well, the Mets have refinanced their debt and there’s all sorts of moolah laying around for Sandy and Company to spend. Now all they have to do is find someone that’s still available to play in the outfield.

Some candidates could be:

                Michael Bourn – the ex-Atlanta Braves centerfielder’s only downside seems to be the fact that he’s tied to losing a first round draft pick and that the changes to the draft and international spending mean that high draft picks are more valuable than ever.

                Manny Ramirez – Ramirez remains unsigned and reports are that he’d accept a one=year deal with incentives. Sure, he can’t run, field, or throw anymore, but that shouldn’t get in the way in the Mets outfield.

                Bobby Bonilla – still on the payroll, Bonilla is secretly in a south Florida gym trying to make weight and get back to the game he loves.

                Victor Cruz – Cruz could immediately report to camp since there’s no playoff games standing in the way and could you just imagine that little salsa dance after every catch in center?

                Mitt Romney – Mitt would have to work around his Board of Director duties, but, other than that, it looks like he has nothing but time on his hand (is number 47 available?).

                Lance Armstrong – Armstrong is considering doing whatever it takes to restore his athletic career in triathlons and running events at age 41, including play next to Lucas Duda.

                Hugo Chavez – Chavez, who reportedly is feeling much better after his latest “severe lung infection” said, ‘hell, Fidel and I could play as a platoon’.

                Dan Stevens - the handsome character actor who plays Michael Crawley on ‘Downton Alley’, who dies in a car accident a couple of weeks from now is available; however, I think that makes him around 123-years old.

                Adam Rubin – the ‘ultimate team player’, Rubin has volunteered to put down the mighty pen and create exciting plays rather than report on them. His peers welcome both decisions.

14 comments:

TheCloser said...

Mack, I just don't understand why David Wright isn't in Sandys office pushing for a trade to bring Justin Upton in here. We clearly have the assets to bring him here and his contract is very reasonable given his age and talent.

David and Justin grew up near each other and were close friends growing up and I think it's pretty obvious we have a huge need for a power hitting rf. it's a bit frustrating to see a guy that makes so much sense for this team and know that we have no shot at getting him in Flushing.

A package of Flores, Syndergard, Mateo & Den Dekker could get the conversation started atleast. I wouldn't be heartbroken to lose any of those guys knowing what we're potentially getting back. Upton is signed through 2015, but I would look into extending that deal long term as well and have Wright & Upton locked up through 2018 and feel really good about our 3-4-5-6 hitters for many years to come, wright-Ike-Upton-d'arnaud.

Mack Ade said...

The Mets have both the money and the secondary prospects to do a trade like this... if they want to

Charles said...

It would take a lot more then secondary prospects.

They would want a top 25 MLB prospect plus another top prospect plus more.

Think of the Dickey deal. Snydergaard and Flores is a good start, but you'd have to add a Wheeler or Harvey too. That's what Towers is holding out for and that's why he isn't a Ranger yet. They offered Olt plus and it wasn't enough.

Maybe if you added a Gee to it, considering the price of pitching. But there's no way they'd take that original package or just a bunch of secondaries. Remember, Flores is the Mets top positional prospect, but when you put him into the mix as far as MLB prospects, he bottom 100. That isn't enough to center a deal on. Syndergaard is too far off. DD isn't getting anyone excited.

This is Justin Upton, a young cost controlled, proven outfielder. Cody Ross got 26 mill, that makes Upton's price that much higher, which is why Arizona probably paid so much for Ross. They increased the value of Upton a lot by making Ross so valuable. Towers is a genius.

TheCloser said...

Charles, even if this isn't enough, why aren't we even linked to him or even in the conversation. I disagree and think this is a good starting point and if we needed to add more to this offer, that's fine with me, but this is the type of player we should be targeting. They want a young 3b since they just picked up Didi Gregarious to be their starting SS of the future.. I would absolutely consider Gee, Niese even Harvey & Wheeler if we needed to for a bat like this. This to me is the type of player we need to cash in these chips for. Syndergard is going to be in High a this year, that's not that far off and he's ranked as an A- grade on minorleaguebaseball.com.

Assuming Matt Harvey didnt reach his 50+ innings limit last year, the mets would be ranked as the 2nd ranked minor league system in all of baseball behind St. Louis, so we definitely have the prospects to get a deal like this done. www.minorleagueball.com/2013/1/2/3829866/minor-league-system-rankings-based-on-sickels-rankings

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/12/16/3775304/new-york-mets-top-20-prospects-for-2013

Charles said...

Closer: just hear me out.

We've waited a LONG time for a winner. I'm asking to wait just one more season and here's why.

Jeremy Guthrie
Annibal Sanchez
Zack Grienke
Broxton
Shields
Dickey

They've all taught us that if there's one thing in baseball that's the equivilant to having gold, it's pitching. Pitchers are both getting paid enormous amounts for mediocre performance and getting teams filthy rich in prospects, great prospects, in trades.

Justin Upton is a good outfielder, not great and if you take him away from his home ballpark, he's just decent. That's not worth trading away mucho prospects for right now, when your team isn't just one good outfielder away from having a playoff contender. For a team like Texas, yeah, it's a good gamble, but not the Mets.

With the Mets current team and minor league system, they are perhaps just one year away in development from having a ton of pitching depth for not only their ML team, but excess that's ready to be moved for that outfielder you want.

When Harvey, Wheeler, Niese, Gee, Familia, Mejia, McHugh, and Gorski are all ready and able to form a great rotation, the Mets will easily be able to move one, most likely Gee or Niese, to get a great young outfielder and then some...a la the RA trade.

They'll also have plenty of insurance just one more year away in Fulmer, Syndergaard, Montero, Mazzoni, Verret, Pill, and DeGrom.

That doesn't even include the Cyclone rotation from last year, Steve Matz, or any of the countless sleeper guys that could pitch there way into Queens like Gee did.

Moving guys now would just be a bad move. Hopefully, they'll keep the system intact, build upon it and fill their holes right now through modest FA signings. After trading RA, this team seriously put off contending for at least a year, possibly two.

Mack Ade said...

+1

enyherb said...

Charles, the one thing you said that I agree with completely is "Justin Upton is a good outfielder, not great and if you take him away from his home ballpark, he's just decent. That's not worth trading away mucho prospects for right now" . . actually, right now or anytime later. He's just not that good. If I'm going to talk about trading away prospects like Syndergaard and Flores, it won't be for an Upton.

BUT, right now the best offensive outfielder in baseball could be available. Giancarlo Stanton is unhappy with Miami and would welcome a trade. And yes, I'd much rather have Stanton than Josh Hamilton. I'm betting he will not be available next off season. He'll either be traded now, or by the deadline at latest. I wouldn't want to risk losing him by waiting until July to try to make a deal.

If I'm Alderson, I'm on the phone with an offer of Syndergaard OR Wheeler, Murphy OR Flores, Mejia OR Familia, Tapia OR Montero, and Vaughn or Den Dekker. If necessary, I'd give Nimmo instead of Vaughn/DD.

Does that sap the system? Sure. But I look at it this way. Synders wasn't even here a month ago, and if they take Wheeler, Synders is only 1 year behind him, so we have pretty much what we had before. With the pitching depth we currently have in the system, the 2 other pitchers we give up are replaceable. So we are really just giving Flores and Vaughn (or maybe Nimmo) for Stanton. I do that in a heartbeat.

Charles said...

I like your argument and for Stanton, I'd do it. Would it hurt? Yep. But picture Giancarlo in a Mets uniform...

That would be nice. I'd have to think though, that Texas would have a better chance, having such a better system.

Also, I just don't think Sandy and company would do it. They seem to be a sum is better then its parts group of thinkers. I think they'd rather receive a big package of prospects then give up a group of prospects. Think about it. Giancarlo would be amazing, but I don't believe it's possible. I really doubt the Mets would give up all those guys for just one player; even if he is the worlds greatest and most feared power hitter.

I think they'd just see him as mlb's biggest contract waiting to happen, and a PR nightmare when they'd want to trade him at that point in four years. Especially, if they are a good team by then.

enyherb said...

Charles, in my heart I want Stanton desperately, but in my head, I fear you're right. It might just be too big a deal to unload that package for Alderson to swallow. I won't get my hopes up.

But regardless of who has a deeper system, it's the team that submits the best offer that will get him. And I think the package I outlined is pretty damn strong.

What makes the most sense to me is that everyone in that package is expendable. By acquiring Syndergaard, Sandy made either Wheeler or him expendable, as long as we keep the other. Flores doesn't really have a spot in our future, unless Murphy is traded and he can fill in at 2B. We can live without Mejia or Familia, and Tapia or Montero, with all those high ceiling pitchers in the pipeline. Nimmo might be a loss, but he is a long shot to me.

If Sandy acquires a speedster to lead off in the next few weeks, a lineup with Stanton, Davis, Wright, and d'Arnaud 3 through 6 would be awesome. We could be a contenda.

enyherb said...

Oh, and regarding MLB's biggest contract waiting to happen, we wouldn't have to worry about that until 2017. Maybe by then we will have been winning for a few years and the biggest contract won't scare them. It didn't phase the Wilpons when it came to signing Santana.

Charles said...

They still had Madoff back then. Totally different story back then.

enyherb said...

They have SNY now. It's a goldmine. Not such a different story at all.

TheCloser said...

Charles: i can appreciate your argument, but there's one major that concerns me both now and long term, who plays OF for us? Here's a look at the 2014 free agent class.

Jason Bay (35)
Endy Chavez (36)
Matt Diaz (36)
Raul Ibanez (42)
Reed Johnson (37) - $1.6MM club option with a $150K buyout
Jason Kubel (32) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Nate McLouth (32)
Mike Morse (32)
David Murphy (32)
Xavier Nady (35)
Laynce Nix (33)
Martin Prado (30)
Ryan Raburn (33)

Center fielders

Coco Crisp (34) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Rajai Davis (33)
Jacoby Ellsbury (30)
Carlos Gomez (28)
Curtis Granderson (33)
Franklin Gutierrez (31) - $7.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Tony Gwynn Jr. (31)
Andres Torres (36)
Chris Young (30) - $11MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

Right fielders

Carlos Beltran (37)
Endy Chavez (36)
Shin-Soo Choo (31)
Nelson Cruz (33)
David DeJesus (34) - $6.5MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Chris Denorfia (33)
Matt Diaz (36)
Jeff Francoeur (30)
Corey Hart (32)
Xavier Nady (35)
Hunter Pence (31)
Ichiro Suzuki (40)

Stanton would be ideal and who wouldn't want him in our lineup, but i personally just don't think the Marlins want to send Stanton over to us and have to see him hit 500 hrs as a Met, but stranger things have happened. I think we would need to have a far superior package to get him from a division rival.

I think our main disagreement is based on Justin Uptons value. I believe your underrating him and you believe I'm overrating him. He had a down season last year, but his power, speed, hit skill is far superior to anyone on the fa market. .280, 25, 85 is realistic and something we desperately need out of a corner of position. He's still only 25 years old and clearly on the upswing.

The other guy that might make sense for the Mets would be Chase Headley and put him in RF. he's a switch hitter and could bring a little pop and credibility to our lineup. I wonder if the Padres are looking to shop him. I know we're not 1 player away, but I just don't see where we're going to find a big power hitting outfielder that can hit in the middle of our lineup for the next few years. Given Upton's relationship to D Wright, it might make him a happier guy and a better player with the lineup support that he desperately needs.

enyherb said...

Closer, there are a dozen very serviceable outfielders in next year's free agent class, any one of whom would be an upgrade over out current OFs. No, there isn't a Josh Hamilton or Michael Bourn, (unless maybe Carlos Gomez continues to blossom in his walk year) but if necessary, we'll find a good fit.

You say Upton had a down year last year, but only his power numbers were down. (I wonder why.) Otherwise, his season was exactly in line with his career numbers. He had very similar seasons in 2008 and 2010. (Maybe even years aren't his thing.) And have you looked at Upton's career away splits? Take him away from Chase Field (a known hitter's park) and he's a mediocre player. (.250/.325/.406/.731) IMO it's Kevin Towers who is overrating him.

Regarding Headley, SD has said they aren't trading him. Yet there was some recent rumor about a discussion of Headley for Upton, a trade that, on the surface, makes no sense. I personally think the Padres would want a king's ransom for Headley too. I grant you that he busted out last year, but do you really want to give away a passel of prospects to acquire him? What if he reverts back to the .265-11-60 player he was before last seasons exploits.

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