The Morning Report 6.4.2015 | 6...No Wait..5 Man Rotation?, Black's Velocity In Question, Zobrist to the Mets?


Adam Rubin | ESPN New York The New York Mets' six-man rotation may end up a six-man rotation with an asterisk. After Dillon Gee allowed seven runs (four earned) in four-plus innings against the San Diego Padres on Wednesday in his return from the disabled list, manager Terry Collins said it will be discussed among the staff whether Gee gets skipped the next time his turn comes up. "One of things that has got to be discussed is with that day off coming up," manager Terry Collins acknowledged after Wednesday's 7-3 loss to the Padres. "Dan and I are going to sit down and talk about when [Gee's] next day will be."

(Chris Soto: There's so nice way of saying it...Gee stunk last night. This is the problem that is created when you go with a 6 man rotation. You spread out your superior talent and inferior talent usage becomes a larger percentage of your overall plan. In addition when you throw off days into the mix, suddenly 5 days of rest becomes 6 days and then 6 becomes 7 days. It throws everyone's timing off.)

Anthony DiComo | MLB.com- Vic Black's low velocity throughout his Minor League rehab stint has the Mets questioning their former setup man's readiness for the big leagues. As a result, Black is shifting his rehab to Triple-A Las Vegas, despite five consecutive scoreless outings at Double-A Binghamton. "His velocity is not what we know it to be," Collins said. "I just know that that's what got him here and that's all we've seen. We have yet to see Vic Black pitch at 93, 94. We've seen him pitch at 95, 96, 97. So if he's going to pitch at three or four miles an hour less than what he has, command of his fastball has to be very sharp. You can't live in the middle of the strike zone with a 93-mph fastball. That's average stuff to these guys these days."

(Chris Soto: I personally beared witness to Black's reduced velocity during his first rehab stint in AA. However, it's odd that his reduced velocity is being referenced again. Reports a few days ago indicated that he was sitting at that 93-94 range during his recent stretch with Binghamton with a few burners touching 96. Collins is making it sound like Black is still sitting in the low 90's like he did his first time out.)

Matt Ehalt | NJ Advance Media- The Mets are interested in Athletics utility player Ben Zobrist but nothing is brewing between the teams. Mets general manager Sandy Alderson told reporters in San Diego the team is looking at external and internal options while they wait for third baseman David Wright (back) to return from the disabled list. There is no timetable for when Wright will return. While Zobrist is having a down year with Oakland, he’ll be a free agent at the end of the season and can play multiple positions in the infield and the outfield.

(Chris Soto: Zobrist would be a good fit for this team as a multi-positional guy who brings a consistent bat. Defensively, he is average to above average at every position he has played outside of SS and his bat generally brings 15-20 HR power with a .270 AVG and a reasonable 17-18% K rate. He's been EXTREMELY unlucky this year as he is posting the lowest K rate in his career (8%) but still only hitting .234 thanks to a depressed .232 BABIP. He seems like a good bounce back, buy low candidate )


Thomas Brennan said...

On Zobrist, I think Cubs may also have interest. If we can get him reasonably, let's do it.

I think they are wlking back optimistic Black statements. He'd come up, and likely Leathersich goes down. Except in 2 dozen games since his 3rd game of spring training, Jack has allowed runs in only one game. So they don't want to sent Jack down for a guy who is not really 100%, and stalling.

If Lagares is hurting still, when Cuddyer returns, let Ceciliani play a few games in Juan's place so he can heal up.

5 man rotation, with Matz in it. We'll regret these "figure it out" losses later. Trade Niese or Gee, ASAP.

Thomas Brennan said...

Zobrist hit a grand slam last night. Maybe Reynolds and Gee for him? Maybe too much?

I did my Sub-par Subs article the other day. The A's have their own stinkers in left field: Cocoa Crisp and Gentry are a ridiculous combined 5 for 83 (.060)

Anonymous said...

If Mets get Zobrist, where would you play him?

Right now, today, I'd go Murphy 3B, Flores SS, Tejada 2B (replaced soon by Herrera, moving Tejada into backup role). Wright will return at some point, maybe, to further complicate things, pushing Murphy either back over to 2B or into "super sub" role.

Eric Campbell must be grateful that the Mets GM refuses to seek solutions from outside resources. Poor guy is living a nightmare right now, his career circling the drain.

Zozo said...

I would think that is way too little for Zobrist, you probably have to start with Plawecki?

Anonymous said...

I should add two things:

1) The previous anonymous was me, JP;

2) If Mets indeed skip Gee's turn, they basically carry a useless player for 10-12 days. He'll take up a roster space and contribute nothing that entire stretch. The whole thing is stupid, like the 3-man platoon at 1B just a season ago. A failure to act decisively.

James Preller

ZachBoyer said...


Question: Why would you replace the guy hitting .310 for the one hitting .235? You said "Right now, today …" So you're going to bench the guy who keeps going 2-4, 3-5 for every night?

Christopher Soto said...


I don't think it's a failure on the Mets part....There's just no market for Gee.

@Zozo and @Tom

In reference to Zobrist's trade value....it's actually not that high. Coming off a +5.6 WAR season Zobrist and Yunel Escobar were traded for C John Jaso, SS prospect Daniel Robertson, and OF prospect Boog Powell.

Jaso for Escobar is a wash.....SO lets focus on Zobrist for RObertson and Powell.

Robertson was the headliner here....the former 2nd round pick is a 55 grade prospect with a 60 grade bat and 50 grade power.

Powell is more of a throw in...45 grade overall, 50 bat, 30 power.

With Zobrist struggling and in the last year of his deal is reasonable to think that a 50 grade + a throw in could get the job done.

The A's farm system is pretty thin but their biggest need is Middle IF and OF.

So in my best opinion Matt Reynolds + Ivan Wilson could reasonably get you Ben Zobrist.

Christopher Soto said...


Pre-Trade I agree...

The defensive alignment should be Flores at SS, Tejada at 2B, Murphy at 3B.

If we were to get Zobrist...

Flores at SS, Murphy at 3B, Zobrist at 2B

Anonymous said...


I take it you are referring to my plan to replace Tejada with Herrara when he returns? I guess it's because I don't see them through your lens of a ".310 hitter" and a ".235 hitter." Seven days ago your .310 hitter was a .200 hitter, so we should pause before defining these guys by pure numbers.

Of course, if Tejada continues this way -- and he won't -- he'll get plenty of ABs at 3B, SS, and 2B.

Anonymous said...

Christopher, sure, there's no market for Gee, or Niese. But meanwhile, the season rolls on. I forget if Gee went to arbitration or if the salary was negotiated, but he's earning $5 this season. Is the idea to wait for a market to develop? Because it's not going to.

For years we've watched the Wilpon Mets wait for these face-saving deals, where they finally make a trade that includes a couple of long-shots from low-A ball.

Sandy dithered over Ike Davis for months, rolling out that dumb, dumb, dumb triple-platoon at 1B. Waiting for a market that would never come.

Meanwhile, these games matter. The time to make a decision was over the winter. It's not exactly a surprise that the Mets have plenty of starting pitching. No one should be shocked by Syndergaard's readiness, or Matz, or Montero in the wings.

Waiting for the market to develop is a great way to fritter away a promising season, IMO.

James Preller

Ernest Dove said...

Its as if the Mets are taking for granted that brief 11 game win streak putting them in some kind of guaranteed playoff spot when it obviously doesn't.
All this 6man nonsense apparently to conserve numerous guys to last into october. This team is a road series sweep away from being under .500.
If TDA, Herrera, Black and I guess Montero all come back healthy in June, this team needs to put its BEST out there. Best lineup. Best 5man rotation.

Thomas Brennan said...

And Ernest and James, the best 5 man rotation has to include Matz, who is better than Niese and Gee, the day he hits Super 2.

Chris, I'd do that Zobrist for Reynols/Wilson in a heartbeat. Figure out a way to unload Niese and Gee too, as soon as we know Rafael can start in a pinch, otherwise stick one in the pen, but definitely get rid of one ASAP. Do not try to build their value and ruin this season in the process.

Reese Kaplan said...

I'm probably the biggest Ruben Tejada detractor here, but you have to keep riding the hot hand until reality sets in and he reverts to form. The team struggles enough for offense that you can't afford to take out one of the few who's actually hitting (for a week, anyway).

Ernest Dove said...

I agree Reese....
Im curious to see what Mets do with Herrera when he comes back? Lets obviously not forget he'll come back as an inexperienced kid and probably STILL the youngest position player in the mlb. Cant really ice em on bench. But who's to say he'd even contribute more then a hot Tejada right now when every win is important.

What still matters most in my opinion is the production (or lack thereof) of cuddyer and grandy, the two 8figure hitters still on active roster. They have to do better (yeah I know cuddyer has a nice average recently).combine better performance with TDA hopefully a big offensive upgrade over Plawecki and then maybe go with best defensive infield possible even if their production is not there.

Anonymous said...

I don't see anyone saying to take Ruben out now. I'd move him to 2B however, where he'd be a significant defensive upgrade. Murphy came up as a 3B.

Last night Ruben hit two dinks, soft balls that dropped before a couple of immobile outfielders. He did rip one ball down the LF line. No doubt, he's been playing well. If he improbably keeps that up, sure, enjoy the ride. It would not be my PLAN, however. All of this talk is predicated on the understanding that we all know Ruben Tejada is not the answer.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the outfield right now, the need for a bat, and the frustration over a grossly inefficient 14-man pitching staff.

James Preller
Earl Weaver: "Ten pitchers are too many."

Zozo said...

No way in hell that you get Zobrist for Reynolds and Wilson!!! No matter how bad he is doing right now, billy bean will get a whole lot more for him. Start with a Plawecki type player.

Mack Ade said...

Zozo -

Zobrist is a rental player. He wouldn't cost as much as you think if you are willing to pick up his entire salary

Mack Ade said...

All -

I'm sort of getting sick and tired of hearing that this team hs built on players that no one else wants in a trade.

I would have my best 25-man squad on the field period.

BTW... do you remember the 2012 draft when Gavin Cecchini (12th overall) was drafted because it wasn't one of three players, Hawkines (13th), Giolito (16th), or this guy at 41st, who even came after Plawecki at 35th... Lance McCullers...

threw a complete game shut-up yesterday

(one we all missed on in thatdraft... Joey Gallo at 39th

Mack Ade said...

We're experiencing right now a meltdown of the strongest element of this team, the starting rotation.

The 2015 Mets were never going to be a team that would produce 6-7+ runs a game or come back from 7-0 deficits.

This was a team that would give up 3 or less runs in the first 6-7 innings and then bear down and win it by one or two runs.

The offense, as I pointed out yesterday, has actually played pretty good over the past two weeks. It's been starters like Harvey, Noah, and Gee that have created the losing scenario.

Now, sloppiness and poor decision making in the field has set in also.

And, the bottom line, is no other team has runs away with either a division title or a wild card slot.

I no longer can support having Steven Matz at AAA. He's one of the top 5 starters available. If this team is truly committed to a playoff run they need to make a decision here, sit down with their big 5, and let them know that future of this team is in their (pitching) hand.

Zozo said...

If I we're Billy Bean I would consider placing a qualifying offer tag on him at the end of the year, he is one of the leaders in WAR over the last 5 years from what I remember. So if you make a trade for him you will have to compensate for such a loss.

Mack Ade said...

Zozo -

I don't expect Zobrist will be around by the end of the season.

ZachBoyer said...

How many more bad games does Niese have to have before Matz comes up? 1? 2? What's the grace period here? It's enough already! They're wasting their good start! They're wasting the season! Did I just not appreciate the 11-game win streak enough?!

Mack Ade said...

Zach -

I haven't done my homework here, but a lot about the 11-game win streak was the teams they played and the players that were still on the Mets and not on the disabled list.

I especially miss Blevens...

The 2015 Mets are not going to compete until most of their players come off the DL... d'Arnaud and Herrera should be back in around 10 days followed by Blevens.

Any more success has to come from the players that are currently on the squad.

For starters, you can't spot a team a 7-0 lead.

Thomas Brennan said...

Zach, with the Mets this close to Super 2, Matz will not be called up for another 10 days or 2 weeks. My hope is both Gee and Niese falter a bit longer, so when that day comes, Matz slides right into the 5th lot and they go back to a 5 man rotation and
Spot start whichever of Gee and Niese is not traded. Use the guy that's kept like Dice K was last year. Dice K did well enough in that role.

In the NBA, you need a good man off the bench to be a winner, 6th man of the year. Maybe Niese, if he can sublimate his ego, would do well in that role, and lessen wear and tear on his shoulder.

Christopher Soto said...


I hate to disagree with you but that's what Zobrist just went for this past off-season. I laid out some very sound reasoning. If the price is higher than that....it's not much higher.


THe Mets have a very strick policy of 150+ IP above A+ ball before you can be considered for the MLB. Matz is currently at 139 IP. In my opinion, Matz will make 2 more abbreviated (5 IP) starts and will be called up.

bob gregory said...


Do we really want to hope that any of the players on the Mets falter?

I would rather that all the players perform at their best, but the younger, upcoming players perform even better.

Have the young players force their way onto the team, not get ahead because those in front of them take steps backwards.

Its a danger minor-league watchers have to be careful of.

eraff said...

JIM P's Points above ...100% agree!!!--- It matters what you do when Games Matter.

They need to make some decisions on Pitchers...some will be wrong...whatever.

Mack Ade said...

I follow around 400 people on Twitter which includes most of the Mets beat writers and all the fans that also follow me.

The majority of the fans are under 25 and seem to be Twitter-born. I've never sen a more negative group of fans in my life and I come from the generation that called out beloved Brooklyn Dodgers 'The Bums'.

We all could use a little more 'root root root for the...", especially for the players that need it the most.


I want Niese to pitch a no-hitter and get this team back going in the right direction.

I know I probably am not going to get that but I'll settle for the win.

Thomas Brennan said...

Bob, I do not see them getting Matz in there for months as a starter if they don't falter. I like Niese and Gee, but I want Matz in there ASAP. The only other way I see the Mets getting Matz in there as a starter is if another one gets hurt.

One more bad start for each, and Matz is in the rotation is my guess/ hope. Imagine if it were Seaver in the minors and two mediocre guys stood in the way. You'd want a way for them to get Seaver in there ASAP.

I otherwise wish Gee and Niese well, but it is past time for Matz to be in the rotation.

Management would agree, but they have to maneuver towards it. If Gee and Niese falter just a bit more, Matz is in.

Otherwise, Maybe the end of July, Maybe 2016. I think Matz is the best of the 3 right now.

Charles said...

Wait, call up Matz?! Seven man rotation? This FO is really going to reinvent the Wheel.

I honestly don't think Matz is coming unless they do something with Gee. I think they'll gove Niese a ton of rope because he's contracted to them for a while.

Thomas Brennan said...

Charles, not 7 man rotation. 5 man, with Gee or Niese traded shortly and Matz up as soon as Super 2 hits. Survivor of G/N becomes spot starter or long reliever. I think Matz's talent more than offsets their experience level.

bob gregory said...


How about modified spring training rotation?
7/8 starters rotating on 4/5 day is schedule.
Each pitching 2/3 innings each?
It would be like watching All-Star game pitching substitutions at times.
Reinvent everything.

Or not

Thomas Brennan said...

Bob, a better idea...a 25 man rotation. Thor bats clean up, Matz is 5th in the batting order, Colon is leadoff to inject contact, speed, and entertainment into the batting order. DeGrom would bat 8th, because that is where Collins puts his best hitter. You fill in the rest of the line up card.

Mack's Mets © 2012