The Morning Report – December 18 – Jed Lowrie, Amed Rosario, 2015 Mets, Jonathan Niese, John Sickels


Good morning.

One thing happened prior to the beginning of the holiday season on Tuesday that indirectly (at least) affects how the Mets will play their 2015 season.

The Houston Astro did take the name of Jed Lowrie off the table and signed him to a 3-year deal/option through the 2008 season. Some thought the Mets were looking to add Lowrie to their roster, though I have never been one of them. In fact, I don’t think the Mets are serious about adding any more shortstops.

The Mets have seemed to internally agree that they will go in the direction of Wilmer Flores and Ruben Tejada to cover this position in 2015. I can tell you through internal sources that this position is targeted in 2017 to be Amed Rosario’s to lose. What happens in between is simply a matter of discussion at this time.

This is where it gets tough to make decisions. Rosario projects out as probably the best shortstop prospect in well over 10 years. Defensively alone, he could blow his way through Savannah and St. Lucie in Savannah. What do you do if he’s turning heads at these levels and Flores is better the job done in Queens?

All of a sudden you could have another Starlin Castro Javier Baez situation.

Comment From John - As a Mets fan, seeing every other team “on the bubble” making moves to actually improve their roster is incredibly frustrating. We kept hearing 2014 then 2015. Now the Cubs and Marlins have both passed the Mets in competitive ability, and the Mets are still below par for the other national league teams. Then, we get Scott Rice and John Mayberry Jr to make us feel better. Seriously, did this rebuild go awful? Did the FO overestimate the necessity of pitching by building a system built solely on it? When teams can turn guys like Arrieta into studs, should the rebuild have been heavier on the bats? Should I quit watching baseball?

Dan Szymborski:[i] I think the Mets have worse ownership when it comes to on-field play (Loria’s horrific otherwise of course). And truth be told, I dont’ think the Marlins really look all that much better than with what they had.

Mack – I seem to have to keep reminding Mets fans that Michael Cuddyer was also an addition this year in the Hot Stove season.

Yes, Cuddyer, Rice, and Mayberry Jr. still seems a little short and, frankly, Sandy Alderson had a little more bad news for you on Tuesday afternoon.

Alderson confirmed what most of us knew the second after he inked Scott Rice to a one year contract… the Mets were through with looking for a second lefty outside of the organization to join Josh Edgin.

The Mets are not going to spend $3-6mil a year to fill this position and they will let Rice, Jack Leathersich, Darin Gorski, Dario Alvarez, and Sean Gilmartin compete for this slot.

My guess right now is they all fall a little short and the Mets fill the slot with Rafael Montero until Bobby Parnell comes back.

As for2016, your second lefty may just already be on your roster and also already signed.

Don’t rule out Jonathan Niese here, Sure, he would hate it, but he hates being a Met anyway. 2016 would be his pre-free agent year which would give him the proper incentive to pitch well under any condition.  

I posted up the final Top 20 Mets prospect list from John Sickels on Tuesday.

He’s been rough over the years on the Mets system, but, as it turned out, he was quite accurate. I don’t think there is anyone else in baseball that spends more time on prospect ranking and doing this accurately for 30 teams is close to impossible.

This time around, he raved about the Mets and he ranked only nine pitchers in the top 20 players.

In addition, the 1-2 punch of Noah Syndergaard and Steven Matz was quite impressive.
Bats wise, there was a Urena sighting and I found the Cecchini ranking at 11 a little high, but who couldn’t excited about Dilson Herrera being ranked third in a system he calls being ‘in very good condition’?

Folks, I’m sort of down to looking for improvement from this team one year at a time and the possibility of Syndergaard, Matz, and Rafael Montero joining the pitching staff sometime this year, followed by Herrera and Kevin Plawecki becoming the backup catcher… well, this is big news to an old war horse like me.

I loved the report John.


Thomas Brennan said...

A Castro-Baez combo from Flores and Rosario would be just fine with me. I still think Reynolds may push Tejada out soon in 2015, but we'll see. Reynolds would almost have to be about as good as Tejada defensively for that to happen.

Sickel had a seriously tough job coming up with a Met Top 20. Tons of talent to sort thru.

Niese in the pen? Could do worse. Starter can do what many relievers can't...get a lot of guys out in a single outing. Jon would probably do well there if his attitude played along.

Your oft-hyped 2014 prospect Trae Turner has done very well - you were spot on there, Mack - and helped make that Wil Myers deal possible.

greg b said...

Thats what's exciting about the system is its not just top heavey. There's more in the lower levels.

Ernest Dove said...

Im sure by 2016 some random scouts/evaluators/experts will start claiming that Rosario can't stay at short, just like every other hitting ss prospect they've had past few years............
Anyone got thoughts on report of Harvey not starting until home opener?

Kevin S said...

I don't get the Wil Myers trade for Tampa. They lose a potential stud coming off an injury plagued season for a whole bunch of quality prospects, only to flip the best two of them to the Nats for a fringe player. I like Souza but not at the cost of Trae Turner plus the other arm.

The Nationals made out like bandits here and Turner will be replacing Desmond when they let him walk after this season.

Not happy at all that we'll have to face Turner for the foreseeable future. Let's hope that Conforto turns out better and we sign Desmond next offseason.

Ernest Dove said...

Hard to argue against anything Tampa does, because they been a hell of a lot more consistent with winning seasons then our beloved Mets.
But thats y im so excited about Mets now. Not all prospects pan out, but their top 20 is so damn solid that if the higher level guys pan out a little and stay good, they still got plenty more to package in deals for an all-star at some position of need later. ............
Or they can trade a Duda type for some teams top 5 prospect IF a Dom Smith pans out and is ready to rock in 2-3 years..............
Oh and im with whoever wants Plawecki on the 25 man, even as a back-up. I don't care if it hurts his 'trade value'....fill your roster with 25 best players in your system, not just stick in some random space filler at ANY position.

Gary Seagren said...


Dallas said...

What happened to the Winter League results post from yesterday? Some good comments about Puello then it went poof at some point.

bob gregory said...

Mr. Alderson....??

Where are you Mr. Alderson?
Have you heard that Wil Myers was available??

or is your excuse that the first thing the Rays asked for was ....Harvey, Wheeler, DeGrom..... and you immediately hung up?

In case you didn't realize this yet, Mr. Alderson, negotiations are SUPPOSED to start out that way.
The other team is going to ask for something higher than what they would actually settle for.... and then the negotiations down begin.....

Mack Ade said...

Thomas -

I can't believe they got their hands on Trae Turner

Mack Ade said...

Dallas -

The winter posts were NOT suppose to be posted. The site was closed out of respect for the Jewish Hoildays.

Mack Ade said...

Bob -

The only teams that take place in deals like the Wil Myers ones are by guys that are still working the phones.

You heard Alderson tell the reporters the other day he is done.

Lew Rhodes said...

I do not get the comments on the Mets "not improving."

What, since Sandy didn't land a household name, we didn't improve?


The Mets had two "blackholes" last year - LF and SS.

Cuddyer is a HUGE upgrade over what we put out there last year - even if he only plays 100 games, this is a massive upgrade.

At SS, Flores will hit, and hit a lot, he is a huge offensive upside over Flores.

The Mets did crappy RH bench bats all last season - and had the second lowest OPS vs. LHP in the ML last year: they just signed a guy who completely kills LHP; that's a HUGE improvement

That is the new additions

This doesn't count guys coming up through the system.

It isn't about landing the high priced big name players (ask those of us cheering for the Mets in the early 90's)

It is about adding the complimentary guys and having a deep line-up

And frankly the offensive success of this team will hinge very much on Wright - if he returns to a 5 WAR player, they will push to 90 wins - if he hits like last year, they will be lucky to break .500

bob gregory said...


and that is the problem.

THAT is exactly why Alderson has proven his limitations as a gm.

THAT is exactly why the Mets will always be limited under Alderson's direction

bob gregory said...


the problem is not so much that ALderson has "not done anything" to improve the Mets.

The problem is that Alderson has not done enough in the same amount of time that other teams have RISEN,....fallen.... and then RISEN up again

bob gregory said...


additionally..... if Alderson is basing all of the Mets success on D. Wright returning to what he has been in the past....

that is blind, wishful thinking.

That is NOT how a successful team should be developed to start a season.

Wright has proven over the past few years that noticable decline is occuring.

The proper thing to do should be to hope for the best, but prepare as if a moderate to low improvement occurs.

Christopher Soto said...


Let me talk you off the ledge....

The Rays organization is one of the best in the business when it comes to prospect evaluation. There is a reason they traded Wil Myers and Sandy knows that.

Myers did have a "down year," he suffered a wrist fracture last season that destroyed his production. Historical injury data show that wrist fractures are ABSOLUTE career killers.

For example, Mark Teixeira was a perennial 35 HR .820 OPS hitter before he injured his wrist. Since then, Tex has lost half his HR power and his OPS contribution has dropped by over 100 points.

Plus we complain about why Sandy didnt get OF x or OF y.....that we fail to realize....where the heck would you play this acquired OF?

All 3 OF positions are tied to legitimate MLB starters right now so why are we clamoring for Sandy to get another one?

Lew Rhodes said...

Here is another things about Myers:

Look at this minor league stats - drool over the numbers all you want, then go look at his BABIP - his lowest is about .335 -- his monster AA season had a BABIP of .412.

Those are not sustainable numbers - he may be a very good player, but I think there is considerable chance he will never be more than average

Lew Rhodes said...

Chris - I agree that wrist injuries can hurt a player - but I think a guy at Myers age will recover fine - Tex was on the wrong side of 32 when he hurt his wrist

TP said...

@ Chris
I understand Bob's point. It is not specifically that the Mets did not get Myers, it is that the Mets are not gaining the necessary ground to crack the top 5 NL teams. And that is an accurate criticism.

Yes the minors are robust and yes the young pitching is almost ripe, but tell me what team really serious about making the playoffs in 2015 is going to bring in a bunch of minor league invites to add a desperately needed LH arm to the pen? And since when did Josh Edgin become such a sure thing? There is still time but frankly Alderson's comments this week were lame and a bunch of horse do do. I can accept waiting the SS market, but the plan on the lefty in the pen, or lack of action, shows the true colors. They are not serious about 2015 and are giving the fans a bunch of lip service.

Dallas said...

Mack, I wish my employer thought the same way :) I didn't even know it was Hanukkah until i saw your post. Any new news on Puello and winter leagues? I'm surprised how little has been written about Puello on the mainstream media and where he might fit. Maybe because most fans aren't deep into the minor league system like we all are.

Christopher Soto said...


While I agree with your premise, both wrist and hand injury recoveries are difficult to assume no matter what the age.

The wrist contains 8 small, separate, and delicate bones plus 4 additional joints. The hand in total is 27 bones. Injuries of any kind to the area have significant long term impacts whether you are an athlete or an average Joe Shmo.

Christopher Soto said...


Puello did receive another start and was 1 for 3 with an RBI last night.

bob gregory said...


The problem is not Wil Myers...

It is not just any one missed opportunity.

The problem is the same thing happens over, and over, and over again.

Christopher Soto said...


What scenarios though Bob?

What move has been made that the Mets absolutely should have been in on?

I remember some readers here were clamoring for Matt Kemp.....did you guys hear the news from San Diego that his medical came back looking "awful"?

Sandy doesn't make moves for moves sake, he and his team (because its not just him....its Riccardi and DePo too.) are very calculated in their approach and understand the concept of "value-add."

In regards to SS, who on the market right now would be a significant improvement to Wilmer Flores?

As a full time starter in September, Flores hit .267 and OPS'd .791. That's a MLB Top 5 hitting SS right there!

bob gregory said...


did anyone see this Wil Myers deal coming before hand?

or Addison Russels?

or the Cespedes from last year.

Don't try to simplify this as if one specific move is the issue.

The issue is that a team like the Redsox have risen, fallen, and now is rising again all during the same time that the Mets have continued to hover below mediocrity.

bob gregory said...


Ive looked and searched and I can not find any reports so far that state Kemp's medical came back "awful".

The most recent report I could find was from Rosenthal:

Christopher Soto said...


Buster Olney reported it this morning....sorry I used the wrong word, Olney says they look "ugly"


bob gregory said...

well...ugly may look bad...

but ugly sure did produce over the 2nd half of the season last year

Mack Ade said...

Deals happen when two teams agree on something one team began.

Sounds simple, huh?

Deals will never happen when someone doesn't enter trading arena.

I don't believe Alderson is in it right now so you're going to have to live with what is going on outside in the rest of the beaseball world.

bob gregory said...


That is why I was never supportive of Alderson having his contract extended.

He proved to be very good at the things he was brought to the Mets to do:
1)shed payroll
2)acquire cheap minor league talent
3)take the brunt of the media storm away from the Wilpons
4) plug the leaks in the front office that immediately went to the press

The Mets should be in a new phase at this point.
They need a gm that is willing to shift more toward good, sustainable, baseball decisions for the organization as a whole while realizing that the major league team is ALSO important, and it needs to succeed.

IBfromWhitePlains said...

The grass is always greener….I’ve found that to be fairly dubious when it comes to some of the Met fan hand wringing over the last 5 years.

I’ll take this lineup as it stands. 4 guys who should hit 20 or more homers and 2 (D’A and Flores) who might. 6 guys in your starting lineup that can hurt you, then add Murph. Top notch oung pitching. I’m good.

Lew Rhodes said...

I find this ironic:

The Mets should be in a new phase at this point.
They need a gm that is willing to shift more toward good, sustainable, baseball decisions for the organization as a whole while realizing that the major league team is ALSO important, and it needs to succeed.

This is EXACTLY what Sandy is doing - short term ML deals that are reasonably priced that don't ham string the future while developing a wide array of minor league prospects who can actually be major leaguers.

And not chasing the big name or the high risk player or trading several prospects away for one player.

bob the things you want Sandy to do are the complete antithesis of "sustainable" success.

You only need to look at 2006-2009 for that - one successful year that wasn't sustainable because Omar raped the minor league system to go all in in 2006 and didn't have any pieces from the farm to fill in for injuries in 07 - 08.

If the Mets lose bullpen or other pieces this year, there is a lot of decent talent in AAA to step in.

Mack Ade said...

Bob -

One defense of Alderson.

Let's remember he was brought in under bad times and spending limits. Some are still in place. Getting this team back to a $100mil salary is like swimming the Nile upstream.

Alderson is STILL under budget restraints from his superiors and this just might be the best he could have done.

I happen to think the Cuddyer signing was a little early and appeased Wright, but there might not have been another decent outfielder out there that wanted to sign a deal under the Wilpons yet.

Mack Ade said...

IB -

And you are suggesting the optimist side.

Yes, this current 25-man has superior starting pitchers, excellent relief pitchers and the potential of 7 20+ home run hitters.

A lot of 'ifs' but a lot of positives too,

bob gregory said...


fan hand wringing??

Have you watched the games over the past 5 yrs??

Their were far too many during that time that were unwatchable.

How many times during the past 5 yrs did runners get to 2nd or 3rd base with no outs and the Mets still failed to score>?

How many times was the Mets offense completely dominated by a mediocre pitcher?

Mets front office and fans need to realize.... D. Wright can not be the main offensive threat.

If he is comparable to a D. Jeter type, he would be a very capable cog that is able to keep the offensive machine moving.

Wright was outstanding a couple years ago when he played on the USA team. He needs an offensive threat that he can be supportive of.
Not support for his offensive threat

bob gregory said...


That is not true at all...

What have i suggested Alderson do that is not weighing in sustainability?

Acquiring top young talent in the draft, not just drafting according to an organizational need?

acquiring young major league talent like Cespedes, Tomas, Abreu, Myers, Russel.....etc....>?

acquiring major league talent that is not inury-ridden, or well into their 30's such as Peralta last year, not Granderson.

Identifying a wish list of young major league or prospect talent from other teams and aggressively pursue them even if it means potentially "over-paying" in talent for them?

Making better use of the international free agency system?

Heck....if the plan was all along not to compete until 2015.... why spend at all on the major league roster during the years prior to that?
Is there really much of a difference between 10 games below .500 and 20? or 30? (except maybe a higher draft pick?)

The money spent on temporary major league minor improvement types could have gone toward the minor league system with players like Solar in international free agency.

IBfromWhitePlains said...

Bob – maybe “hand wringing” is a little over the top, particularly at Mack’s Mets where the dialogue is really intelligent. But, if you read the comments in places like Metsblog you’ll get a better idea of where I’m coming from.

Yes, I’ve watched 100’s of games where the Mets did exactly what you describe and it drives me nuts. But, I think the process of turning this team around is getting where it should and I expect the Mets to win 85+ games this year, with or without the big splash. I like this team, though I do think they need a solid BP lefty and another experienced bench piece.

Mack Ade said...

IB -

Matt Cerrone told me one time that he loves reading Mack's Mets because it isn't filled with the 'mass Mets fans".

I asked what where they and he said "14 year old girls".

Mets Dreams said...


I will preface this by saying I'm fine with Flores starting at SS or 2B in 2015. If the Mets can upgrade at SS then move Flores to 2B and try to trade Murphy. If they can get Miller for a reasonable price, I would be good with them going into the season with 2 controllable, high upside players in Miller and Flores in the middle.

That being said, let's think outside the box the way some of the other GM's are doing. How about calling the Angels and seeing what it would take for Aybar and CJ Wilson. The Angels are trying to unload CJ Wilson so the Mets offer to take him off their hands should bring the cost of Aybar. Now to offset the payroll because we are dealing with the small market Mets, I would trade Gee, Colon, and Murphy and expect very little in return. Their salaries are about equal to Aybar and Wilson. What would they cost, I have no idea but the Angels just traded Kendrick so it doesn't hurt to make the phone call.

Of course this being a Fantasy League GM, but it can't hurt to kick the tires.

Or be uncreative and get yourself an astronaut in Drew.

Thomas Brennan said...

Lots of comments - my head is spinning a bit - but what else is new? Anyway, Sandy is not done yet, let's see how his plan pans out. That's my take.

Puello will be our clean up hitter by opening day, anyway, and screw everybody's thought processes up! LOL

Anonymous said...

Mets should have gotten Kemp!!!! Who doesn't need a terrible OF with arthritic hips.

He has to be a 30 HR player to even bee above replacement. We are talking Duda in the OF here.

Thanks Sandy!!

Reese Kaplan said...

If you want to pick on Sandy for lack of creativity, that's fair game. As we've stated as nauseum, the only major leaguer-for major leaguer trade he's done in over 4 years is Angel Pagan to the Giants. Gun shy a little, perhaps?

The financial constraints have also been beaten to death but then there's poor judgment exercised on numerous occasions such as Chris Young, Curtis Granderson, David Wright's extension, perhaps Bartolo Colon and the jury's out on Michael Cuddyer.

When you consider he passed on the likes of Jose Abreu, Yasmani Tomas, Nelson Cruz last year, let Jose Reyes walk away for nothing, etc., the criticism is fair about judgment.

The times he's exercise constraint are also admirable, but at some point you have to shit or get off the pot.

bob gregory said...


Perhaps Alderson is constipated?

Maybe we can donate a few truckloads of ExLax to help?

bob gregory said...


nice improvement to the anti-robot verification process.

I love how you:
1) identified the weakness
2) explored options
3) used creativity
4) did not rest until major improvement was obtained

Mack Ade said...

Bob -

Re: Anti-robot process

Thank you. I believe we have Christopher Soto to thank for it.

Mack Ade said...

Mets Dreams -

I think Gee is a goner sometime after January...

thinking out of the box... hmmm

I'm all thought out

bob gregory said...


Kudos for the improved anti-robot verifier

Anonymous said...

Sandy is not free of criticism, but if I may point out a couple of things relative to the players you list above. Abreu was passed over by plenty of teams, including others with far more resources than the Mets and they did end up with 1B who hit 30 HRs, so he was not the only one to miss on him. Tomas still has not played a game in the majors, but the fact that he signed for much lower than expected and most teams took a pace suggests that Sandy's thinking on this was consistent with conventional wisdom. And finally, Reyes landed on the DL with a pulled hammy just before the trade deadline, so his value at the time was severely depressed because he would have been a 3 month rental for a speedy player on the DL with a hammy, so he would not have returned the expected Reyes value at the time. They also received Plawecki in the supplemental, so they actually did receive a prospect that is currently in their top 5 and is at a position of scarcity. This is not meant to excuse Sandy from any criticism, only meant to point out that he was not he was not alone in the miss for Abreu (and 1B was one of the bright spots last year) and is in line with other thinking on Tomas and circumstances as much as anything were responsible for the Reyes situation
Anon Joe F

bob gregory said...

Anon Joe F

all that you say may be true....but...
it is just rationalization. justifying something that was/wasn't done.

Improvement requires taking chances.
some work out well....some don't.

But chances need to be taken.

You point out all of the teams that did not go for one of those players.

I will point out those gms that DID go out and get them.

Why be happy that Alderson missed out, just like others?

Why not want Alderson to be the one that HITS on the talent?

Mack Ade said...

Joe F -

(first, email me at: macksmets@gmail.com... I have something I want to discuss with you).

We suffer from a lot of Mets impatience here, much of which I believe go away in 12 months.

If I had to make a prediction right now I would guess that that the teams in the division will play each other 50-50, thus limiting the division to only one playoff team.

However, I see the Mets clearly becoming the 2nd team in the division and I see the depth of talent in the organization rising one more level.

2016 should be Sandy's year. The battle of the NL East Rotations

bob gregory said...

2016??!! now?

another year of.....mediocrity?



Anonymous said...

listen, I think this is the biggest problem with Sandy. He cannot openly admit that 2015 is NOT the year, but the real window opens in 2016.
Theo came straight out and said it about the Cubbies because he realizes that one more year is needed for his plan to come in to play, which is where I think the Mets are, even though I think they will be substantially better than last year. I really don't see any SS, other than Drew, that can displace Flores as opening day starter. If I was told that Addison Russell would be acquired in July, I could live with Flores as a placeholder.
Rosario for 2017? That sounds aggressive to me
Anon Joe F

Lew Rhodes said...

Bob -

A few points on your comment above:

1) The Mets aren't drafting for organizational need - otherwise, they wouldn't have drafted a 1b in 2013 when they had Davis and Duda on the ML roster. They take the players that they have rated - besides, they only drafted one pure SS in the high rounds the past few years (Reynolds played 3b in college).

2) You can't spend less money on ML talent and allocate it to the international pool - teams are now capped on what they can spend on international FAs - so, spending $40 million on ML salary doesn't allow you to spend more on the international FA market.

3) How exactly would you go about getting "young ML talent" without giving up multiple prospects? You have to give to get, and once you start giving multiple prospects away, the resource pool starts dwindling.

4) Perralta is a whopping 14 months younger than Granderson - and, frankly I would rather have a 33 year old OFer than a 32 year old SS - and Perralta missed 50 games in 2013 with injuries - so he wasn't the picture of pure health coming off of 2013 - and Grandy and Perralta have nearly identical contract - 4 years 57 vs 60 million. I would willingly bet who will be a better value in 2016 and 2017 - it likely won't be the 34/35 year old SS.

While you complain about what Alderson hasn't done, let's look at some of the things he has done:

1) Wheeler - arguably the 2nd best starter on the team and has #1 starter potential - acquired for a 3 month rental of Beltran

2) TdA - Our above average starting catcher - acquire in the Dickey trade

3) Thor - our #1 prospect acquired in the same trade (and don't forget Bucerra who is also a Top 20 prospect)

4) Black - a reliable power arm in the bullpen, acquired from Pittsburgh

5) Herrera - Our #3 prospect, acquired from Pittsburgh

There are 5 guys - 20% of a ML roster who will have major impacts on how the 2015 Mets do.

Very few GMs can claim that many significant trade "wins" in a three year period. And, let's not forget - he picked Byrd off the trash heap and turned him into Black and Herrera - that was two big wins there.

Sandy's positive moves to making this team better far, far outweigh any "missed" opportunities

Lew Rhodes said...

I won't say Sandy is perfect - no GM bats 1.000 - but he is hitting at an All Star level if you ask me.

Something else I don't think people credit the current FO for is the way they have been developing players - the last FO seemed to push players too fast and then hamper their development - these guys seem to have a knack for how to move players - they allow some (deGrom for instance) to plough through the system and make other slog through - but they always seem to hit them just right

TP said...

@ Lew
The expectation is not that the GM is perfect. Alderson has done a fine job with the system and getting good returns on the sell-off of all-star caliber players (except in the case of Jose). The problem I have is that the actions continue to be inconsistent with the words, which is essentially being disingenuous to the the fans aka paying customers.

The GM is talking about conserving Harvey's innings for October. The manager is touting the team as playoff caliber. However, the additions so far this offseason have not address the shortcomings enough. And, filling out the bullpen with non-roster invitees is not the action of a serious playoff contender.

This is not requesting the NYC team with its own TV station to spend like the Dodgers, Yankees, and Red Sox. How about another $12 million in 2015 payroll and sign Drew and find a legit lefty. When the deal a SP this will still put them at about $105 million in payroll. Is that asking too much from the ownership and GM?

bob gregory said...


We can go back and forth all day/week/year long.
I can counter what Alderson has acquired in his trades by pointing out other gms manage to acquire TdA/ Wheeler/Syndegaard talent when they had the likes of Beltran and a Cycle Young winning pitcher in Dickey to trade.

When it ALL boils down though, the team has shown little improvement record-wise at the major league level over the past.....is it 5 years now?
he still needs more time?

Other gms can and have done better.

Thomas Brennan said...

Hey, Sandy moved my fences in twice! My kind of GM. Now if he'd just have made it 402 in center to allow more homers in that part of the park where the ball does not carry well oftentims, I'd give Sandy an A+. David Wright should have asked for that behind the scenes.

Mack, you'd tied Dimaggio with 56 posts on this today. Since you are better than the Yankee Clipper (or any danged Yankee for that matter), I rolled out my second favorite subject after Matt Reynolds, the fences, to push you up to 57.

Lew Rhodes said...

You guys crack me up - really, the level of pessimism is impressive.

5 years ago we had one of the 3 worst minor league systems in the league and an aging roster burdened with several large, bad contracts

Today we have one of the 5 best minor league systems in baseball, have really only one bad contract (Wright's), and have a fairly young team (Colon aside) (without checking I think everyone else is under 35 and most under 30)

More importantly, for the first time since 1984, this organization is built for a 4-5 run of sustained success.

Also, what needs were not addressed this off season?


LF - check (and RH hitting to boot)

RH bat for bench - check, a guy who destroys LHP

SS - I say check by going with Flores and not rushing to sign a "name" for the sake of it - remember when we "needed" a LFer and Omar signed Bay? Yeah, that worked awesome.

The biggest beef is we are not signing a second LOOGY to a major league contract? Really? They just nabbed a guy in the Rule 5 who eats lefties for breakfast, they have a lefty in the minors who strikes out two batters an inning, and we are talking a fairly low leverage position on the team - the exact position you fill with minor league contracts and see who sticks. There is so much year-to-year variance in the performance of back of the bullpen arms that none of them are worth a big contract.

Do you all remember when Byrd signed a minor league deal? That worked out pretty well.

You simply cannot look a transaction in a vacuum or the ML team in a vacuum - if you do, welcome to Omar's organization - yes, he got us close to the WS one year - and we haven't been in the play-off's since.

Building a team that can have a sustained run is like building a house - the foundation needs to built first - that is what Sandy has done for the past 4 years.

Look at the Nationals - they have had 3 very good years and are the favored in the NL East again - that happened over 3-4 years of smart drafting and developing - not signing free agents every year.

And, TP Drew? Did you not see the numbers he put up last year? No body will sign Drew to be a starting SS next year - he will be lucky to land a gig as a back-up...Flores' offense will be so superior to Drew's any drop in defense will be more than made up for.

So, I guess at the end of the day, we will find out by Sept - but according to what I read on ESPNNY today, the Mets are predicted to be the #2 team in the NL East - despite all the "big moves" by the Marlins.

bob gregory said...


If that is what you want to call it......sure.

let me point out many of us are primarily MET fans.
NOT Sand gnat, Cyclones, Mets, or 52s fans.

Its been 5 years.
2014 was supposed to be THE YEAR.
then it was 2015.
Now 2016?

What do you wait 5 years for happily?
What entertainment do you wait 5 years for?

Will the Wilpons wait 5 years for season ticket holders to pay their bills?
Will Alderson wait 5 years to be paid?

Anonymous said...

Amen Lew
Anon Joe F

Sandy Alderson said...

This is Sandy Alderson. I'm available for questions.

bob gregory said...


Is it true you are having difficulty getting off the pot?

Anonymous said...

The a Cubbies have waited over 100 years and Theo is asking for one more.
Anon Joe F

bob gregory said...

Theo has not been there for those 100 years.
Less than 5 years.

Anonymous said...

Why would you ice a prospect in Cesar Puello for the last year of his minor league eligibility when he profiled perfectly for the most pressing need on the major league roster after posting eye popping numbers in AA while young for the league? If he didn't have the skills (or as the political joke goes, was caught with a live boy or dead girl) why wouldn't you trade or release? Icing him was the worst possible solution.
Anon Joe F

Anonymous said...

The fans have been there for 100

bob gregory said...

Theo is not held accountable for time he was not there.
Just like Alderson is only accountable for the time he has been here.

jeff said...

"he could blow his way through Savannah and St. Lucie in Savannah. What do you do if he’s turning heads at these levels and Flores is better the job done in Queens?"

huh ?

Mack Ade said...

Jeff -

This made no sense whatsoever and I don't remember what I was saying. Sometimes Blogger takes over and just combines sentences.

Add to that my lack of going back and checking sometimes what I had written and you get chicken scratch like this.

Bottom line... nothing Rosario does in 2015 is going to effect Flores.


jeff said...

"5 years ago we had one of the 3 worst minor league systems in the league"

no it wasnt. it was never that bad, and always somewhere in the 15-20 range. your exaggerating.

harvey, degrom flores, duda, lagares, mejia, familia, edgin, gee were all part of that "worst" system before alderson. seems like they are huge parts of the current team

minaya stunk too but alderson has been even worse overall - draft, (smith and cecchini are major reaches and question marks) trades, free agent signing.

going into 5 years - he hasnt done nearly enough good. its really foolish to defend his record. its bad.

he's 5-13 W/L overall as a gm and on a 9 year losing streak. probably soon top be 10. thats bad

jeff said...

"Bottom line... nothing Rosario does in 2015 is going to effect Flores."

ah, got it. i agree

TP said...

Let me clarify -
1. LOOGY? 2nd LOOGY? How about a legit lefty for the pen that gets out RH and LH batters? Are you suggesting that Edgin has proven himself anything beyond a fringe LOOGY? And to add another you are citing two players who have yet to throw a major league pitch? One who was let go by two teams and another who has very high walk rates?

2. Drew - In no way am I suggesting that he be handed the starting SS job. He is inadequate vs. LHP at a minimum. And, for the record, I like Wilmer. However, the tandem of Wilmer and Murphy will be the worst middle infield tandem in the bigs. And TDA was the worse defensive catcher in the bigs. For all the knocks on the offense, the lack of defense at this stage is more alarming since it will directly affect the team's strength, its pitching.

No team is perfect, and no GM is perfect, and criticizing the composition and inactivity of this team is not pessimism.

Robb said...

I think what sandys done. i dont think theres been a huge free agent miss that made sense for the mets in an area of weakness that id want for the contract they signed. 2015 wild card, 2016 division, then then just playoffs.

It could also be worse, the mets could be the Knicks, islanders, Jets or Nets. just sayin.

Lew Rhodes said...


Thomas Brennan said...

@ Bob Gregory

2015 will in fact be the year - I've been keeping that a secret, but I just want everyone to know so they can have a happy holiday!

jeff said...

"harvey, degrom flores, duda, lagares, mejia, familia, edgin, gee"

montero too

"It could also be worse, the mets could be the Knicks, islanders, Jets or Nets."

what, the islanders 21-10 record and top 6 points in the league dont cut it?????? tough crowd

jeff said...

and 8 more points than the rangers btw.

Mack's Mets © 2012