At some point in the 2023 season the Mets need to decide something very important about their near and long term future as a team. Right now the club is struggling to play .500 with the largest payroll anyone has ever before seen and no matter how often you keep trotting out the same folks who are not getting it done the odds of turning things around become increasingly a long shot indeed.
That output brings us to today's question...do you concede the 2023 season as a tough learning curve and build for 2024 or do you pull out all stops to try to fabricate a storybook roar from behind to the top by year's end?
The Future Is Not Now!
In today's scenario you have to think about more than the results in the won-loss columns in 2023 and think much further ahead to 2024, 2025 and beyond. You start to look at the faint glow of the Mets future and try to figure out how best to fan the embers and make it grow into a flame.
Obviously Francisco Alvarez is already showing why he got the prospect ranking he earned and he is one of the very few pieces that can make fans smile during this moribund season.
Brett Baty is working on both sides of the major league readiness fence. He's shown many days where his bat speed and pitch judgment are not quite where we hoped they would be, yet there are other days he puts in a multihit performance to remind us how he surpassed Mark Vientos in the minors at the hot corner. Everyone remains fairly confident he will get better and better.
Now Mark Vientos is one of the toughest ones to evaluate. He, in a way, reminds me of Wilmer Flores in that he didn't get to play nearly often enough early in his career, yet after he did he was rewarded not with another start but a familiar place on the bench. It's funny how his major league career has long outlasted the guy who held the lineup pencil.
It's obviously very difficult for a slumping player to hit himself out of his offensive doldrums, but when the team exacerbates the problem by not playing him then that challenge to succeed becomes doubly difficult. You would think with the Pete Alonso hiatus it would have been the perfect time to give Vientos an extended look at first base or DH, yet his manager still feels the answers are Daniel Vogelbach (one year deal), Tommy Pham (one year deal), Mark Canha (remainder of this year deal), Eduardo Escobar (remainder of this year deal) and Luis Guillorme (one year deal). No one really knows what kind of hitter Vientos can become if he doesn't play yet the obvious maneuver of playing him seems beyond the grasp of team elders.
A similar situation exists in AAA with Ronny Mauricio continuing (after his recent injury) to punish the ball by driving in runs, hitting it over the fence and showing defensive versatility (if not ability) at SS, 2B and now LF. At one point the club is going to have to commit to a future of Mauricio in Queens or they will do the typical Mets maneuver of keeping hot hitting rookies in the minors for no discernible reason.
Where the Future is Not Now shines is in the area of pitching. There are no true saviors in AAA knocking hard at the door to get promoted. Even uber prospect Mike Vasil was shelled in his inaugural AAA start. For a team headed by a pair of pitchers who combine for an age of almost 80, the club needs to fortify its pitching resources in the upper minors at the earliest convenience.
While many fans are harping over who the Mets must acquire to help them in the ways they had hoped would be markedly better than Darin Ruf, Tyler Naquin and Javier Baez ever did, the people who believe the Future is Not Now have a polar opposite approach. The way many ballclubs succeed is not by buying the future in a Steinbrenneresque fashion, but instead they work with a balance of key veterans still ready to produce at their prime capabilities alongside younger players who help buttress the foundation for many years to come. Consequently, instead of buyers, it might be more prudent for the Mets to become major sellers at the deadline.
Now this strategy has failed spectacularly in the past. There were years when the Mets bundled off every veteran player they could in hopes of salary relief and wound up with a passel of suspects instead of prospects, one of whom is now suspended for another 7+ games and another of whom just opted for free agency after being DFA'd and refusing yet another assignment to Syracuse. The rest of that bunch is long gone and not doing anything of note in professional baseball.
No, this time around you make it known that the obvious short term contract expiring group including Canha, Vogelbach, Pham, Escobar and others might very well be joined by some surprising names. Looking at the track record of Starling Marte from 2022 shows you what he is capable of doing while his 2023 numbers only stand out for baserunning. You are either on the hook for two more years of his deal or you offer up a solid player to another club for top notch minor league prospects to fill the AA and AAA coffers.
This time you also need to look at the pitching on the club and do a similar analysis of who is meant to stay and who perhaps is more help in leaving. Obviously the senior citizen multi Cy Young duo are underperforming yet at the same time you have to realize that they would still command very nearly a king's ransom on the open market. Your immediate replacement options like Joey Lucchesi, Jose Butto and David Peterson are not going to replace their talent, but again this strategy is about the 2024 seasons and beyond. There's no reason to think that offering up two pitchers considered among the best of the best couldn't bring back another teams' top 5 talents in return for the this caliber of pitcher. (And remember the over $80 million annually in salary relief it will provide).
The same applies to the bullpen. While David Robertson has been mostly sensational, Adam Ottavino and most of the others have not. There is no magic formula in AAA so reinforcements are needed here as well. Yes, Edwin Diaz will return someday and take over the closing duties, but substandard starting requires the highest level support in the bullpen. Right now it's not there and more top tier prospects are needed to provide that future reinforcement.
The end result of this overall approach is a lot of short term losing but it is building solidly for the future while also freeing up payroll to address needed options when necessary. Or are you one of the few who feel that the 2023 pennant is very much in sight and it will only take flaming hot stretches from multiple hitters, starting pitchers and relievers simultaneously to make it happen? If so, kiss your future Shohei Ohtani dreams goodbye.
24 comments:
You don't have to look beyond the lack of decent pitching this season to determine what has failed this season
There are enough runs being generated close to 60% of these games
They are NOT struggling to play .500 - they are an appalling 19-31 over their past 50 games.
The conundrum is that Quintana is back in about 10 days to 2 weeks, and Ridings' first rehab outing in AAA, he fanned the side in 13 pitches last night. Joey's been AAA excellent.
But is that enough? No.
Sell off.
Pham should garner something of quality - not expensive, and .340/.382/.740 in his last 50 at bats, with 17 RBIs. Canha can go. Marte is owed too much to not et $30 million or more. Maybe Narvaez just before the deadline, if Alvarez continues to hit. The big boys? Towards the deadline, when Cohen has eaten more of their gargantuan salaries, perhaps you trade them to the hungriest bidder. Quintana? Maybe him too.
At our ages, who wants a rebuild? But 19-31 is not an accident.
Vientos? Hard to judge - simply, he did not hit in his sporadic play time.
But his last 4 games were against Gerritt Cole, Mitch Keller, Spencer Strider and wily Rich Hill, a very tough assignment.
And - stats in small doses can deceive. I read this, which shows Mark hit in MUCH bad luck:
Despite the lackluster numbers, Vientos has obliterated the ball when he made contact. His hard-hit rate of 59.4% ranks second in the MLB, only behind Aaron Judge (minimum 25 BBE)"
Me? If you're gnnna blow up the team, trade Alonso for an absolute fortune, roll the dice, and put Vientos at first base. Don't forget how badly Vientos torched minor league pitching from mid-June 2021 on...he was ferocious at a very young age. And he'd be as good or better a defensive 1B than Pete.
If you're gonna blow this team up, use C-4.
Marte is owed too much to not EAT $30 million or more, is how it should read.
Cmon Pham isn’t a trade chip.Neither are Vogelbach,Canha,Escobar or Marte. Underperforming vets on big contracts don’t bring back much. Sherzer and Verlander make 40 million a year,top dollar, and that means only salary relief not young talent if you trade them. Vientos,Mauricio,Narvaiz,maybe Peterson are the trade chips.
I'm starting to realize that Veintos just doesn't fit in on this team.
Bucj said he's going to concentrate playing first and third at Syracuse. Doesn't this team have Alonso and Baty there?
The Cal Tech nerds also don't seem to have the confidence in him DHing either.
THIS IS YOUR TOP TRADE CHIP
2ND TOP TRADE CHIP -
David Robertson
As I read this and similar threads, I think of a movie or play in which the major stars give lousy performances and people point out the weaknesses of the supporting cast.
Yes, we can point fingers at our #7 part-rime DH, or the futility until recently of Tommy Pham, or Mark Canha's pedestrian #s, but offenses rise and fall with the middle of the order, and that's where our problem is now.
When Pete Alonso turns into Dave Kingman and Lindor is hitting .213, we're not making up any ground.
And we can point fing we rs at our rotation, where we haven't had a single look at the original 5. Between injuries and the lackluster performances of our stars (yes, you, Max and Justin), the underperformance is glaring, and the failures of substitutes becomes magnified.
The highest-paid players are ALL way below their career norms. Forget blaming it all on the supporting cast, the mgr, or the srar closer jumping too hard after a WBC game. If our stars live up to the back of their cards, we can get back into this race. We're no further out than the Braves and Phillies were at this point last year.
But if the underwhelming performances in the middle of the order and the top of the rotation continue, we're going nowhere but down.
Bill
The reality is that there are too many NL teams ahead of the Mets and the team would have to play. .700 ball to make the playoffs
You can't expect all those teams to lose every night
For this reason alone
SELL
I’m a seller. 19-31 in the last 50 games is very unlikely to turn into 55-36 over the last 91 games. VERY.
And that just would get you to 89-73.
Remember: you trade expensive contracts, every $1 in salary saved is a $1 in lux tax saved, too.
It will be interesting to see how things shake out at the trade deadline. Come August we should expect some new faces and some old ones gone.
Right
I save that 1 for 1 luxury savings everytime I trade my cassette m tapes
Only three teams in the NL have a worse record than the Mets and one of them took 2 out of 3 from the Mets this weekend.
When you try to figure what record it will take in the season's 2nd half to reach a W/C in the middle of June, then it is time to wake up and realize that this season is OVER!!!! Time to bring up the kids and let them play!!!
I concur with sell and rebuild starting now.
Shohei Ohtani is 29 in a few weeks. How would the Mets acquire him and with what? Way too much. If Ohtani got hurt once here, then what? See my point. Sell and rebuild makes more sense. The consistency of 2022 is no longer here, for whatever reason.
The Mets farm has several arms worth hanging onto. The rebuild would be about getting the best talent ready for here.
I might try to make a lesser trade for RSP Corbin Burns from Milwaukee. Don't give up the farm though. There are about 5-6 pitchers there worth protecting now.
Players of Notice in the Farm System to Hang Onto
Syracuse
1. Ronnie Mauricio: age 22 / 2B / .325 BA / 11 HR (promotable now)
2. Mike Vasil: age 23 / 6'5" / RSP / 1-3 / 4.50 ERA / .96 WHIP
3. Hunter Parson: RP / righty / age 25 / 5-2 / 32 K in 25 innings / 1.09 WHIP
4. Stephen Ridings: age 27 / RP / 6'8" / age 27 / 1-0 / 2.25 ERA / 210 LO in 148 career (could see soon here)
5. Nate Lavender: age 23 / Lefty Relief right now, could start down road / 1-1 / 2.35 ERA / 38 K in 23 innings / 1.22 WHIP
Binghamton
1. Christian Scott: age 24 / RSP / 2-1 / 2.56 ERA / 39 K in 31 innings / .79 WHIP (should make Syracuse in 2023, be ready for Mets in ST)
2. Daniel Juarez: age 22 / Lefty Reliever / 2-1 / .86 ERA / 41 K in 31 innings / .70 WHIP (should be up in Syracuse soon. Mets ST)
3. Matt Rudick: age 24 / CF / .294 BA / Syracuse soon, Mets ST.
4. Joe Suozzi: age 25 / OF/1B / .317 Ba / 2 HR / Syracuse soon, Mets ST look.
Possible Trade Bait:
Usual player veteran mentions everywhere from the Mets parent club. Plus, maybe these that contending teams might want or need for their 2023 playoff run:
1. Luke Voit: age 32 / 1B/DH / career stats: .253 BA / 339 OBP / 95 HR
2. Jose Peraza: age 29 / 2B / .294 / .336 OBP
3. Jonathan Arauz: age 24 / SS / .250 BA
4. Joey Lucchesi: age 30 / SP / 5-1 at Syracuse / 2.33 ERA / 1.06 WHIP
5. Oscar Campos: age 26 / C / career .263 BA / .305 OBP
6. Lorenzo Cedrola: age 25 / OF / .371 OBP / 15 SB
Summary
Do not trade the best younger player talent in the system. Mets farm system needs to be strengthened more via Mets trades overall this season/off season. But the above kids mentioned are all worth hanging onto to start the rebuild on the Mets in 2024 correctly.
Middle infield here is a true strength. I would move Brandon Nimmo to RF soon, just to protect him from injury so heading into 2024 he is ready to go from the start. His bat in the lineup is crucial. In 2024, I could see possibly Matt Rudick (age 24) in CF as well. As the hitting core for 2024: Nimmo, Alonso, Lindor, Baty, Mauricio, Alvarez, and hopefully soon Mark Vientos and possibly OF Joe Zuozzi. Seven NY Met homegrowns.
I could see maybe six MiLB Met homegrown pitchers at ST in 2024 as well. This to me, is the best way to go. Trade additions then become only roster absolute essentials, and not a whole new team.
Voit will be the next one up to try at DH. He'll suck but they'll keep running him out there cuz he's a veteran. Vientos will rake in AAA and be left down there. Mark my words
Why don't we trade Robert Person for John Olerud?
Come on, folks! You've got to give to get. If you trade mediocriyy, that's what you'll receive in return.
You want something back tangible?
Trade Vientos and Robertson
For emphasis, what would Scherzer and Verlander net in a trade?
Reese
Hopefully the other team we are trading with, we their best AAA and AA players. This may sound somewhat discouraging to some, but this is not "a tweaking" player personnel wise, but rather a rebuild transition with the pitching staff.
Corbin Burns does make some sense for here, so that heading into the 2024 season you could possibly have this goal for the starting rotation:
1. Scherzer 2. Verlander 3. Senga 4. Burns 5. Vasil 6. Christian Scott
The Mets could have gone to the six man rotation since 2012 to save arms like "Shredded Lettuce's" arm now sadly dangling limp after his second TJS. But they "could not, would not". The 2023 Mets team absolutely should also, with the three older veteran starters in this one rotation. Look at the resulting injuries this season with the rotation here. Six starters, just to add more rest to each starter.
But will the Mets do it?
Not sure.
I hope Mets brass will employ the six man rotation in 2024.
Mark Vientos
He just needs to get back into his own batting and playing rhythm. It happens. expectations are high that time first call-up. Players sometimes worry about fan approval and being nervous, which is understandably the norm for most people. It interferes with the players self value and psyche sometimes. Plus, Mark should have been playing more consecutively once up to help him adjust.
Now the second time up for that same player is a lot easier for them. They know already what it is like here, having been up before. They transition much better in other words. It's just all about each person being "unique" in their own adjustment time to new experiences and things in general associated with a new environment.
Pretty much all of us like a set routine each day, with the weekend being the key time to try something different, like a new restaurant, shopping mall, camping, visiting other states nearby for the first time... We become explorers.
So cutting Mark Vientos some slack, is the right thing to do here. He is a phenomenal and powerfully smooth batter, and he will be back here after he gets his everyday playing rhythm back in Syracuse.
Hang onto Mark Vientos for certain.
Woodrow
I disagree with you.
The players like Pham, Canha, Escobar, Marte, Vogelbach...are very much trade chips because there are MLB contending Playoff Bound teams who may have just incurred a key player injury and don't have that automatic backup guy to sub-in that they feel comfortable with for the rest of their season.
Interesting Observations
1. The NY Mets ratio of MiLB good starters to good relievers is not right. They need more top level MiLB starters than they have right now.
It should be addressed soon, and their A-Ball pitchers are showing promise as well.
2. Mack and others, Dave Robertson is a much needed reliever right here for our bullpen. He will not be traded.
So some key trades for this edition of the 2023 NY Mets are limited because the MiLB depth isn't there yet. This does invert back to developing your own teams minor league system first and foremost.
There aren't any quicker and easier ways to build a Championship team than this way. We all see that now after this far into the 2023 season. Where organization strengthening is needed most.
SELL, SELL, SELL! anybody who is not projected to be part of your core 2 years from now.
Get as many prospects as you can in addition to our seven draft picks before the fifth round in July. Young guys bring you juice...get Vientos & Mauricio up here and playing every day, as soon as you can unload the short-timers. THIS IS NOT OUR YEAR...accept that and do what you need to do. And hire David Stearns in the off-season to run this team for Uncle Steve.
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