The Padres pitched Lucchesi a lot, because they weren't stunatze!
Kodai Senga has been the de facto ace of the staff this year.
Max? He has been below max, he’s been Sad Max and even Bad Max, and in his last 2 starts, totaling 9 innings, there is good news: he walked no one.
The bad news, though, is he surrendered a staggering 18 hits and 11 runs in those 9 walk-free innings.
Verlander has been several rungs below last year's brilliance and simply quite mediocre.
Peterson and Megill? Racked and Racked-er.
- 78 runs allowed in 102 combined innings.
Carrasco? 2-3, 5.71 in the middle of June?
- Who is he really, Tom Sturdivant?
Only one starting pitcher besides Senga has been super sharp.
Trouble is, he has mostly done it in AAA, because, I dunno, they're prejudiced against Italians? Nah, that can't be it. Just STUNATZE!
Anyway, Joey Lucchesi last night went 6.2 innings of no run, 2 hit brilliant ball.
The start before, 7 innings, 4 hits, 2 runs, 9 Ks. Dominant.
He is a superb 5-1, 2.33 in 8 AAA starts.
In the majors this year, he is 1-0, with a decent 4.43 in 22 innings.
WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?
CALL UP JOEY. IF YOU'RE NOT STUNATZE.
Tough K by Marte to end 8th with bags full, while trailing by a run. He did have one good pitch to hit in the middle of his at bat that he fouled off. Lindor, though, just prior to Marte, also striking out on a “500 footer swing” was a bad look. Contact was needed, and that pitch was smack-dab in the center of the strike zone. Season is slipping…
20 comments:
Does Max have options?
THIS SEASON IS OVER BOYS!!!! The Braves are only going to get better with Fried and returning in July. And don't tell me that we're looking to get in via W/C!
Mets need to SELL/TRADE whatever they can at the deadline. This team is going nowhere this year! It is going to be difficult to get value in trades because the Mets' signings have put their most talented players in the stratosphere (re: contracts), and other organizations will not trade them dollar-for-dollar on high salaried players. Therefore, who can they trade? McNeil? Canha? maybe Marte? There's not much to sell other than Alonzo who isn't going anywhere. This team is in a very difficult place. High salaries and poor performance. That usually takes at least 3 years to unravel (especially given that pitching is not their strong suit in the farm system). Eppler, or whoever is the GM moving forward needs to strengthen the pitching corps. Apparently, Scherzer and Verlander have seen better days and the Mets are best suited to have them play out their contracts and seek younger arms at this point. Baty, Vientos, Frankie Alvarez and Mauricio should be starting everyday!
However, this is not the route that Eppler and this organization is going to take. I'm afraid that there is going to be a very difficult lesson and process that this organization and Steve Cohen is going to learn. Mostly, it is that spending tons of money does not necessarily buy Championships!!!
Similarly, the NY (football) Giants have had to exhume themselves from a similar fate (which they have been presently and painfully undoing over the past two years!).
sic: Fried and Wright returning to the Braves in July
Frankly, I would sell even if I had to eat salary
Win now approach did not work for Mets Padres.or Phils
Insert 4 kids
Promote Mendick Ruddick Ritter Vasil Hamel next spring
Draft pitching
Target 2025-6
The Mets are simply old, old,old. Play the kids and clean house of old wood
The Mets ran two big gambles this past winter: the first was that 4 pitchers over age 34 could produce at ace-like levels. The second was that they could set up the bullpen to be lights out in the 8th and 9th innings, and rely on 6-7 AAA arms (and Ottovino) to bridge the gap; with those AAA arms riding the NYC-Syracuse Shuttle based on workload.
Both gambles have failed--the bullpen plan collapsed when Diaz did, and the starters have missed by a mile.
Time to sell. Drew Smith, Robertson, Ottvino, Escobar, Cahna, and Nido should all be moved. Take on all of the salary and see if they can get better prospects. The Wilpons were reluctant to absorb salary in those deals. Cohen should be much more willing.If nothing else, they can re-stock the farm with chips they can possibly use for later trades.
And they need to draft pitching this July and lots of it.
Good morning - good feedback.
I IMMEDIATELY PROMOTE JOEY.
Quintana in about 2 weeks(?)
Then, see where this team is at and if at all precarious, sell, baby sell. Play the kids. The worst that can happen is the team wins 65 games, restocks, and rebuilds over the winter.
Hope Max and Justin right their ships, so they can be traded for nearly what they are owed to some team willing to pay the price to become the next Vegas Golden Knights.
If, however, they look like clear leaders for winning a Wild Card berth, I am OK with a sell off at season's end. Roll the dice.
Meanwhile, why the Mets did not sign Murphy and release Vogelbach is beyond me.
Apesquat, I have written so often in these columns on the extreme danger of aging players suddenly plummeting. To deaf ears.
Don't trade any prospects, unless for Ohtani.
Roy
Your posting above, is right on and exactly what I was going to say. The only thing I personally disagree with is because I am a diehard NY Mets fan and can never just give up on them, especially so early on in a season like this is. I still believe in these players.
It does look like this team has kind of self imploded, maybe even "given up just a tad" as well. Not sure if true as to the WHY. Old arms with too many innings on them maybe. Not hanging onto catcher Gary Sanchez long enough to see (six homeruns in his first 13 Padres games played) or one homerun in every seven times up. The allowance of Mets star players into the meaningless WBC. Moving Eric Chavez away from being the 2023 NYM's Batting Coach that had everyone hitting well just a season ago (remember?). The Mets pitching coach everyone seems to love, but is friendliest (evidently) to the Mets MASH Unit permanently stationed out in the Citi Field parking lot. Struggling to find veteran outfielders who can hit above .254 and actually slug homers aside from the Mets All Star CF Brandon Nimmo. Struggling to find any decent starters and sometimes relievers from Syracuse that can be consistent.
It's hard for any team to win with the injuries and excuses this 2023 edition of the NY Mets has assembled. It does sometimes look like Manager Buck Showalter may have lost the reins to his 2023 NY Mets team. I have to admit. But maybe some kind of a miraculous (Mets means Miracle in Latin we all know) turnaround can be forged out in 2023.
You Simply Gotta' Believe!
I really hope the failure is a complete one and we don't get into a situation of say a 3 or 4 game win streak and we start hearing about "if we add a few pieces" we can turn this around yeah right just like trying to save the Titanic and we don't have enough lifeboats. The big job ahead needs to start ASAP.
I agree with the latter post. Decide when it is time to sell, totally keeping the rose-colored glasses OFF! If they rally (which frankly they show no sign of really doing), then postpone selling if there is a clear-eyed STRONG CHANCE of grabbing the Wild Card and having a legit shot to win the World Series.
Otherwise...clean house. Big time. Get great draft picks, and quickly rebuild.
I am hoping Eric Orze can get his crap together and be able to pitch out of the Mets pen. C'mon, Eric. Get it done.
Hartwig is over his AAA hiccup - last 6 outings, 1 run, 3 hits, 4 walks, 10 Ks. Him too - get him up here.
Lucchesi, Quintana, Hartwig and Orze might stabilize this sucker over the next few weeks - if it is not too late. Peterson and Megill can straighten out from their miserable 2023 so far and come back up if they trade Max, Justin, Cookie, and/or Quintana.
Gary, agreed. Unless the team has a "top team surge" over the next few weeks, very unlikely, then may they crater and sell.
Also why is Vogelbach still on this team?
It is in the hands of the KIDS here now. Maybe something like this...
1B Mark Vientos 2B Ronnie Mauricio SS Francisco "Yellow Head" 3B Brett Baty LF Jeff McNeil CF Matt Rudick (when ready) RF Brandon Nimmo C Francisco Alvarez DH Starling Marte
Bench Depth:
1B/DH Luke Voit (when ready) IF Jose Peraza/Luis Guillorme OF Tommy Pham C Omar Narvaez
SP 1. Senga, 2. Corbin Burns (via trade with Milwaukee), 3. Scherzer, 4. Verlander, 5. Mike Vasil (when ready to come up, if even in 2023, with lefty Joey Lucchesi for the here and now in this five slot)
Best RP seven arms: Hunter Parsons, Josh Walker, Tyler Megill, Brooks Raley, Adam Ottavino, Drew "Sticky Fingers" Smith, and Dave Robertson the closer.
Possible Trade Chips: For Brewers rumored on the market starter Corbin Burns, maybe for something like Jeff McNeil, Carlos Carrasco. But not sure yet who it would take.
For younger MiLB talent maybe Eduardo Escobar, Mark Canha, Jose Butto, David Peterson, Jeff Brigham, Grant Hartwig, TJ McFarland, Daniel Vogelbach, Tim Locastro, The old "Thor" Costume.
Also: Why would I move Brandon Nimmo over to right field? A: Because you see how he plays center field and is absolutely terrific there. He's super aggressive, but can be injury prone at times as well.
My thinking is simply to save his legs, make him a little less injury prone, and keep his all important bat in the NYM lineup throughout the 2023 season. It's just common sense really in a season where the NYM might not even make the playoffs. Why risk Brandon, our bets player, to any potential serious injury in center field.
In the above post I just made.
I would target other teams MiLB best players definitely. The Mets biggest weakness right now, is their lack of a solid AAA and AA minor league.
So what I was trying to say above, was simply try to trade veteran proven players like maybe Eduardo Escobar, Mark Canha, Daniel Vogelbach, Tim Locastro, to teams at the trade deadline that are in the playoff hunt but may have a need for one more solid veteran player like these are.
The Mets kid players I might try to move as well: Jose Butto, David Peterson, Jeff Brigham, Grant Hartwig, and TJ McFarland are to get one or two pitchers from other teams that may have shown more likelihood to stick once here.
This isn't easy for anyone to all figure out. So I just had my dog (Oscar Meyer) tell me what might work. He's usually right on the money too! (LOL)
Tom you talk about getting great draft picks but with our first pick at 32 and the next at 56 I do not see this as happening. Cohen spent a lot and that pushed us to get latter draft picks. With all of the organization hired to support the minor leagues we need to see better development from within our system. I just read how the Dodgers have so many great pitchers in AA they do not know what to do with them, Cohen said he wanted the Mets to be like the dodgers, let’s see that happen. The international market is really where we need to make great signings. In 2022 we signed Fanas and Juan. So far I haven’t been too excited with either one. In 2023 the signed Gateriez, Larez and Baptist. So far in the early going Larez is the standout. Let’s see what happens.
By the way I like what is happening with Vasil, Hamel, Tidwell and Tyler Stuart. Maybe we have some sort of pipeline developing here.
Another interesting question going forward. What do you do with Peterson, Megill and Butto.? None of these players look like the ones we have seen in previous years.. Do you try them as relievers? Do you trade them? Why keep them on the 40 man roster over the winter?
Interested as to what you think.
Hi Guys,
Sorry to be the pessimist here, but I really don't see us getting much better this year. A shot at the WC is possible, but I wouldn't give up the farm for that possibility.
Several people mentioned trading our garbage to re-stock the farm system.
What in the world would we get back for players like:
Cahna, Escobar, Marte (19mil a year) Pham, Vogelbach, Nido, Peterson, McGill?? NOTHING...but a bag of balls. A few low-level prospects at best. We would have to eat half the salary. The only thing we would get is roster relief and a chance to play the kids the rest of the year.
I would take a pass on Cahna's option unless he signs for much less and used as a 4th outfielder.
We are just going to have to suck it up this year. My biggest fear remains what Eppler is going to do at the trade deadline, especially with his job on the line. As bad as last years trades were, he could screw up the organization for years to come.
Excellent posts, Joe P, Gary and Anonymous,
I agree with all which has been stated by you guys. We need to start to look towards 2024 and beyond. Our organization has made the mistake of extending large contracts to players who are on the decline. Moreover, if Francisco "Light" keeps hitting only a couple of points above his weight, we are in serious trouble (as his salary will remain an albatross for years).
Yes, sadly it is almost time to punt! We have to trade off whatever is marketable other than Alonso, Diaz and Senga and the young 'uns. McNeil, Nimmo, and set-up RPs might be marketable to trade and acquire some AA or top-tier A-ball prospects. Other players such as Canha, Marte, Quintana, Carrasco, etc. have little if any trade value for other teams looking to vie for the playoffs. So we are somewhat hamstrung even as sellers at the trade deadline coming up in 5 weeks.
But what Uncle Stevie maintained is imperative: I.e., we need to fortify a minor league system which is mediocre at best, at present. We need to do it the traditional Mets' way. I.e., cluster draft college and high school pitching arms to buttress the organization (as the organization has done since the days of Seaver, Koosman, Ryan, Gentry, McAndrew & Matlack).
At present, our pitching is our biggest "Achilles Heel"!!!!!
Raw,
I wouldn't put a stake on any of the aforementioned pitchers as SPs moving forward. Outside of Senga and maybe another year of Verlander, the starting pitching needs to be revitalized. Minor leaguer SPs such as Vasil. Tidwell and Hamel are potentially our future. And maybe Joey Lucchesi or Jose Quintana can return and pitch effectively as 4th and/or 5th SPs. Moreover, without Diaz, our bullpen has suffered this year. I think Buck was correct to point out that the paucity of innings pitched by our starters has put a considerable strain on our bullpen. So tighten your belts, fellahs; I think that the ride might be very bumpy the remainder of 2023!
In the meantime, keep your eyes on two MLB teams who are on the rise (besides the surprising Arizona 'Snakebites'); Cincinnati - The "Cardiac Kids Red Machine" (a virtual lock IMHO to win the NL Central) and Birdies of Baltimore who will be a citadel in 2024!
Things is MLB may take shape very similar to the early to mid 70's with Cincinnati and Baltimore as perennial juggernauts!
sic: in (not is)
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