1/20/14

Mack’s Morning Report – 1-20-14 - 2005 Draft, The Mets and the Wilpons, A Look Ahead?


Coming up today - 11am - Chrisopher Soto - Are the 2014 Mets a Better Team on Paper? (Center Fielders)

2pm - Craig Mitchell -- "Summer is a Strat-O-Matic Heaven"

5pm - Matt Gad -  Mets sign ex-Nats star....Now Who Is The Fifth Starter Out of Camp?


Michael Baron ‏@michaelgbaron - RIght now, I have the #Mets payroll at $87.6 million. That's without much of a bullpen, and issues at SS/1B/rotation depth.


-We continue to look at the draft years of 2000-2007 for the NL East teams. Specifically, we break out the players chosen in the top three rounds and an overall assessment of success (sic) in choosing players in the draft.

2005 –

Mets  -    
      
            #1       P          Mike Pelfrey           1,049-IP, 55-67, 4.48

            Five of the 48 players drafted made it to the major league level

            Four (Pelfrey, Jon Niese, Bobby Parnell, Josh Thole) have had success at this level


Florida –

            #1       P          Chris Volstad          704-IP, 35-51, 4.94

            #1       P          Aaron Thompson              8-IP, 7.04

            #1       P          Jacob Marceaux                career ended at the AA level

            #1       P          Ryan Tucker                        42-IP, 8.14

            #1       P          Sean West               113-IP, 8-8, 5.03

            #2       OF       Kris Harvey              career ended at the AA level

            #2       C          Brett Hayes             350-AB, .220

            #3       P          Matt Goven                        career ended at the A+ level

            Eight of the 55 players drafted made it to the major league level

            Three (Volstad, Gaby Sanchez, Logan Morrison) had some success at this level


Nats –

            #1       3B       Ryan Zimmerman             4.429-AB, .286, 672-RBI

            Five out of the 48 players drafted made it to the major leagues.

            Three (Zimmerman, John Lannan, Craig Stammen) had success at that level


Atlanta –

            #1       P          Joey Devine             88-IP, 8-3, 2.75

            #1       P          Beau Jones              career ended at the AAA level

            #2       SS        Yunel Escobar         3,437-AB, .278, 354-RBI

            #2       P          Jeff Lyman               career ended at the AAA level

            #3       OF       Jordan Schafer      1,013-AB, .227

            Six of the 52 draft picks made it to the MLB level

            Five (Devine, Esobar, Schafer, Tommy Hanson, Tyler Flowers) had some success at that level


Philadelphia –

            #2       3B       Mike Costanzo       18-AB, .056

            #3       P          Matt Maloney       91-IP, 5-9, 5.74

            Five of the 49 players drafted made it to the MLB level

            Two (Maloney, Josh Outman) had limited success at this level

252 ballplayers were drafted in 2005 by the NL East teams

 29 made it to the MLB level -  11.5%

Only 17 had success at that level   -  6.7%


We had a discussion early this week about the Wilpons and whether or not they will commit the monies needed in the future to secure the services of (what I call them) ‘The Big Three’… Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler, and Noah Syndergaard.
I estimated that it will take somewhere in the range of $60-70 million dollars a year to properly contract them through the remainder of this decade. And, my numbers may be conservative at best.

John Zozo pointed out:

Mack you know this ownership group won't pony up that kind of money for any of the 3 pitchers, if they become as good as we hope. Actually maybe they pony up for 1 and that's because the fan base put to much pressure on them.. We are Tampa Bay North now!!!

Anonymous counted with:

            John, we shouldn't forget that this organization spent plenty of money before the Madoff saga. If things go as planned, the team will be better and attendance will be higher, SNY ratings will be higher, the owners will be in a stronger financial position. So, I think it's fair to expect that payroll could be in the $150 million range in a few years. I don't think it's fair to judge the owners only on the last couple of years when they were wounded financially.

Look, I’ve been very critical of the Wilpons because, as a Mets writer, I think it would have been in the best interest of Mets fans to have this team owned by a more solvent family, individual, or corporation.

The Wilpons never had problems supporting this team when the economy was good and they were also getting a good return for the money they invested. They double downed on their dream by designing the ‘new Ebbets Field’ and financing the vast majority of the money needed to build it.

Then, a double whammy. The economy tanked and their trusted investment guru turned out to be a crook.

Everything didn’t change overnight because the Wilpons decided to operate differently. Things changed because they were cash broke.

Look, I was considered a pretty good and decent broadcaster… until I went belly up in the late 80s. That last year of ownership included vast cutbacks of good people that trusted me with their future as well as going salary-less and pumping $20k a month out of my pocket into the operation to pay the bills.

I left ownership without a pot to piss in and was hired by a bank (GE Capital) to go out to Austin, Texas and clean house in a radio operation that had lost $2mil in the previous year. I fired 22 native Texans, got the station to a break even state, and sold it to Clear Channel, but to this day I am still thought of as the worst radio broadcaster to ever go through that town.

The Wilpons (and especially, Saul Katz) are not stupid people and they knew they had to find someone that could steer this ship in the right direction with a limited amount of fuel. I’m not saying they are saints, but they didn’t trade Tom Seaver either.

Yes, I still believe it would have been better for the Mets to be owned by someone else right now, but frankly, after what has transpired for this company and their bank accounts, it is fiscal responsibility.


Bob asked –

Mack That was my first thought also, that Quintanilla being signed pointed towards Tejada being the starting SS next year. I also saw in a report somewhere that the current projected Met payroll for next year, even after factoring in the arbitration settlements made and projected to still be made, was about 82-83 million. What are your thoughts about the difference between this amount and Sandy stating earlier this winter that he was certain next year’s payroll would be MORE than last years? Is there something he is still looking to do this winter? during spring training? during the season? maybe just for the heck of it, spread the rest of the money between everyone on the team as a bonus? or might this be another purposely misleading statement made about the teams finances/player acquisition plans

Mack – No, I think he truly expected to have more done at this point. The addition of John Lannan and Omar Quintanilla will add some, but I’m sure he expected to be spending around ten million more for a shortstop.

My guess is he is just about done until the all-star break, except for the international signing bonuses that the team is supposed to spend heavily in this year.

Sandy Alderson will continue to do what he can to improve this team from the bottom up. That’s all he can do under the current revenue restraints.

He didn't lie, Bob. He just had it wrong.


A Look Ahead?

Instead, look for the players to demand more compensation. The current arrangement expires after the 2016 season, so we probably won't hear much about this topic for at least another year or two. Since baseball is raking in such large quantities of money, more than a few owners will go green at the gills when confronted with a possible labor stoppage. If the two parties are looking for a fair and equitable solution, perhaps it finally is time to do away with the reserve clause or take other steps to improve early-career compensation. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/against-the-trend-the-dodgers-continue-spending/


19 comments:

greg b said...

The problem with the Wilpons is that they did spend money but they didnt put it in or enough in the farm system. If they would hsve put money into the farm system we wouldnt have years of under 500 baseball. At the time instead of having a payroll of lets say 150mil , have it at 140 and the other 10mil in the minors for the draft and int'l signings.

Mack Ade said...

Well Greg -

They drafted 50 players just like every other team.

They may not have produced as many as you like, but they did operate like a normal big market team until their bottom fell out.

I didn't like the players they drafted in the 2000-2010 era, but (under Omar) whenever they didn't spend in the draft, they made up with in free agency

Anonymous said...

The problem in the draft for the Mets was that the Wilpon's were supporting Selig's slotting system so teams that went overslot like the Red Sox, Pirates and others had an unfair advantage. The Wilpon's took Omar Minaya's greatest strength, scouting, and removed it from the equation. In my opinion it is hard to judge Minaya properly because I get the sense the last three years of his service he was not even allowed to spend on international free agents and he started being creative in the regular free agent market by spending on aging high risk high reward players. I suspect the Wilpon's new that things were about to go south two to three years before they did.

Mack Ade said...

Anonymous -

You make a very good point about slotting under Omar.

I don't think that was a Wilpon restriction. I can't see an owner saying "no, you can't offer a bonus to your top draft pick" but you can overpay Carlos Delgado.

And here's something else I might be wrong about...

I never saw Omar as a domestic scouting genius. He surrounded himself with people like Tony B. and concentrated on international signings.

I don't want to go back this far.

Alderson seems to be doing it right now, under the rules of the game

Jeff C said...

I agree with you on the Wilpons based on their track record in the mid to late 2000's. The Mets were one late night food run (Duaner Sanchez) away from closing out the Cards in 2006. Imagine how different the perception on the Mets is if they won in 2006. I also think the Santana and Bay contracts made them skeptical of big contracts. In a few years, hopefully the financial situation gets better and there is a return to spending closer to what would be expected for a NY team.

On another note, 2 part question. Do you think Nick Franklin can play Major League defense at SS? He certainly has the bat and with Cano going to Seattle they have an excess with Franklin and Miller. If he could play SS, what do you think it would cost the Mets to get him? Is Montero a good starting point?

Anonymous said...

MLB's second base prospect ranking comes out. Curious to see where Herrera slots in ... also, Wilmer.
Chavez06

Mack Ade said...

Jeff C -

I'm going to answer the second part of your question in tomorrow morning's report

Anonymous said...

@Anon

Ask and you shall receive!

:)

Unknown said...

Mack I sincerely hope u are right that they do start spending money on a scale compared to what we as fans are paying. We are paying top dollar for every aspect of the game and not getting our dollars worth compared to other big market teams. We should at least be on par with what the Phillies are spending.
So basically we are paying off their debt? Do you think when they finally catch up with the debt amount, that they will reimburse us some how? I doubt it!!
Also you are right that they didn't trade Seaver, but if wasn't for Doubleday we wouldn't have had Piazza. They don't treat our top players the way they deserve. Fred talked crap about Wright. Beltran and Santana probably won't ever want anything to do with this organization ever. Reyes wasn't even made an offer to stay, he didn't get too much more then what I believe he deserved.
I also hear that the Wilpons are involved in bringing in a pro soccer team to the area and also involved in the redeveloping the chop shops across the street. Now my question is where are they getting the funds to be involved in 2 massive big deals,when they don't have funds to bring in the likes of Stephen Drew?
So I don't trust them to spend more on our payroll in the future, I don't trust them to do the right thing with their players. I don't trust them to do right with us fans, but I do trust them to put their foot in their mouths very often.
Here is my weekly rant and I don't believe we should ever let them off the hook for the way they treat us the fans. We didn't get them into their fiscal mess, we have been paying them top dollar in the market every step of the way. So why do we get stuck paying off their mess, let them sell off their assets to pay their way. No other organization is run so horribly.

Mack Ade said...

John -

The Wilpons have made a lot of mistakes. I think they have learned to stay quiet and stop answering questions with questionable answers.

My educated guess is you have to blame Alderson on the loss of Reyes.

It will get better and I still think the best way a fan can send a direct message to this team is to not support it financially in 2014. Stay home, eat Hormel hot dogs and wear regular t-shirts. You'll know when to come back (the team will hit the .500 PCT range)

And don't hold against them any of their plans for other investments. That's what businessmen do.

Unknown said...

That's what I do buddy, my only plans this year of going to games are in Montreal and Seattle. I do pay for SNY but that's all the money they deserve from us and am willing to give them. I buy my shirts from The 7 Line and am fine with that. But they are still taking from other Mets fans to pay off their debt.
Yes they are business men but it is also a privilege to own an MLB team. A privilege that requires a fan base that shouldn't be screwed over. Just because you want to go easy on them, I for one don't! They have money for other investments but not for the one we are interested in. Their financials are messed up not ours, I just feel they shouldn't punish the fans that have been following this team way before they came along and will be here long after they finally leave.

TP said...

Mack,
Here's my 2 cents, or 1 cent - whether Alderson lied about 2014 or miscalculated doesn't matter to me. He misrepresented their intents the last 3 years by saying then intended to be competitive, whatever that is. I understand with the fiscal constrains there was no other choice, but from a fan perspective he was doublespeaking. The standard for 2014 is fielding a team that can compete for a playoff spot, regardless of cost. At this point, with an $82 million payroll, less than last year, he has failed to do so. Even the most optimistic fan can't reasonably see this group as better than 80 wins. The Nats, Phillies, and Marlins are all improved. The Braves haven't improved but were 20+ games better than the Mets last year. Alderson needs to add another 5 potential wins to this team between now and opening day or I will consider this offseason another failure. Not just in the sense of 2014, but the weaker the team is in 2014, the less of a chance it will be good in 2015 and 2016. Other teams have good young players on the way too. It isn't acceptable to just keep waiting for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Anonymous said...

I can find your 5 wins easily.

His name is Noah Syndergaard and Rafael Montero.

Make no mistake regardless of what happens in 2014....this team doesn't have to do a single thing over the next 12 months and we'll still be ready to fight for a playoff spot in 2015.

Mack Ade said...

TP -

My morning post for tomorrow is already done; however, I am going to address your (and Zozo's) comments here in the Tuesday Morning Report

Unknown said...

I agree TP!
Also Mack you can't just blame Alderson for Reyes it wasn't his money. They should of made at least an offer of 15 mil a year for 6 years to him and I would of went as far as the contract he did receive from the Marlins. It wasn't a make or break your wallet kind of offer that let's say Ellsbury got? I would of preferred him at 100 games a year to what we have been getting since he has been gone. We have had nothing but misery at SS and lead off since he has left. Also the Mets had him at reasonable price throughout his Mets career and if they should pony up for anyone it should have been for him. Just like wright he never embarrassed the organization, he actually made the stadium more electric and fun to be at.
Also if it wasn't for us fans finally saying enough is enough they probably wouldn't have signed Wright to that extension as well.

Unknown said...

Lol, thanx...I am just a passionate pissed off fan.

Mack Ade said...

Zozo -

Just so you know where I stand on the whole Reyes thing...

it was handled poorly and Reyes deserved to finish his career as a Met

TP said...

Christopher,
I sure hope you are right, but I doubt it. Virtually everything would need to go right for Syndy and Montero to add 5 wins without losing wins elsewhere from the starting pitching.

Regarding 2015 and competing with the status quo, again, the pitching stars would need to align if you are anticipating Harvey, Syndy, Wheeler, Montero, Niese, Gee and the bullpen all being able to be so superior that it can overcome a lineup without a leadoff hitter or cleanup hitter. Possible, yes. Likely, no.

Bob said...

Mack

These cost cutting decisions that the owners/gm have made for the Mets have hurt the organization in so many ways.
It is not just the on field product that we have had to watch over the past few years. These poor decisions and misleading statements have resulted in the entire Met brand being reduced to garbage in the baseball worlds eyes.
How many fans have stopped watching, going to games, paying for merchandise?

How many fans have stopped encouraging the next generation of fans to come on board?

Players avoid the Mets.

Money has not been spent to improve the minor league system to the degree it could have been. (not only draft decisions, but also international free agents from Japan, Cuba, Latin America).

Our Triple A team has become nomadic and un-wanted.

One minor league team was disbanded and then reformed.

The Mets have lost their Flag-ship radio station.

the list goes on and on.

How much money have the Wilpons lost over the past few years and the future because they were trying to save?

I would love to see an analysis somewhere tallying up what these decisions have cost the team already and in projections in the next few years.

Playoff revenue, ticket sales, merchandise sales, tv revenue, radio revenue, missed opportunities in other marketing opportunities that I have no idea about.

I don't have the answer to these questions. I don't know if the ledgers would lean one way or the other.
But,
the teams misrepresentations and poor decisions have not made me confident they have thoroughly taken all aspects into account in a cost-benefit analysis.